Admin Too Strong, Suffocating Choices In Leveling.

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resistterra
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:39 am

Admin Too Strong, Suffocating Choices In Leveling.

Post by resistterra »

if good game design is about interesting choices, current admin and security stats should be adjusted.

admin is too strong while security is never optimal. every point in admin can more than double the value invested in any other point along with increased cp cap and otherwise hard to get capabilities such as ops income or inspire missions. it scales harder than anything else while being desirable at all stages of the game and for every strategy. its also flexible and easily enables changes in directions and capabilities according to your moment to moment needs.

meanwhile security isn't even meme tier, mostly only a factor when identified and targeted. its faster to reach 25 security through admin rather than invest directly into security with plenty of bonus benefits along the way.

getting rid of admin or security entirely isn't desirable. the hyper scaling, variability with orgs and flexibility offered by admin makes councilors more interesting and engaging then they would be otherwise.

make admin level increase by 1 for every 2-4 points invested in other attributes. for security instead every 2 points in investigation, command and espionage. a rebalancing of xp requirements, organizations and bonus admin may be needed as well.

it may not be perfect but hopefully results in more real choices being presented to the player when it comes to leveling.
rookie.one
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:08 pm

Re: Admin Too Strong, Suffocating Choices In Leveling.

Post by rookie.one »

I don't really see the point of your argument. Imo the Admin Stat is what allows for making choices and creates the deversity in councilor builds.

You are saying one is forced to put his experience into leveling admin; I strongly disagree. Why should I put 1 point into Admin to then aquire an org that gives me +1 (very early game) or +2-3 (later game) to other Stats when I can simply aquire an org that gives me +3 to Admin and then put the experience into the stat I would have aquired an org for.

Councilor progression is kind of slow (~2,4/3/3,4 stats/year for normal/quick learner/striver) and basicly comes down to aquiring orgs (at least in the first decade of the game). While I agree, that the first stat to hit 25 on every councilor should be Administration, reaching that target comes down to aquiring orgs. Once you have reached those 25 Admin (to a large extend through orgs) you can decide what stat to level or what org to swap out for something that fits your needs, those being stats for councilors, missions or simply bonuses to research/country progression.

Reguarding Security, I agree that in a tierlist it wouldn't hit S-tier, but I personally value it, especially more than science.
delor
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:21 pm

Re: Admin Too Strong, Suffocating Choices In Leveling.

Post by delor »

The OP is right. Admin is absolutely a clear winner.

A point in another stat is one point in a single stat. A point in admin is +1 admin (including the CP), +1-3 points in stats from the org you equip (more for a few orgs), possibly some extra missions or passive income modifiers, and on top of all of that the bonuses can be rotated according to your needs by swapping orgs.

Admin orgs and the 25-point cap don't obsolete the admin stat, either. Admin orgs cost cash and use up one of your 15 org slots. You absolutely want them to ramp up your admin stat as you develop, but points spent in admin benefit you even when you can org your way up to 25 by enabling you to equip fewer admin-boosting orgs. When you eventually have everyone at 25 admin, any extra points of on-councilor admin just translate to less admin-boosting orgs equipped which continues to yield higher, more flexible stats with a lower cash upkeep.

Every point in a stat that isn't admin is buying you less and with more negative side-effects. Under the current design, investing in other stats is just a concession to resource limitations- either you can't afford or aren't being offered the orgs that you'd like.

This isn't necessarily as bad as that description makes it sound. You are effectively spending money to gear up into better gear. It's a progression mechanic. It does make levelling up your councilors a bit boring as currently implemented, though.

I can think of a couple of ways this could be improved, but it's not a huge priority and I don't have time to type them up at the moment anyway so maybe in a future post.
frostyplanet
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:26 pm

Re: Admin Too Strong, Suffocating Choices In Leveling.

Post by frostyplanet »

I don't thing admin is too strong, it's just a kind of attribute that can be translate into everything.
Stacking admin to 25 is very easy in the early game, since counsilor have full mission set is hard to come by. Admin and admin orgs is a necessary step to build a working counilor.
Many mission (eg: Purge, Crackdown, Invesitage Councilor...) require at least 10+ stats to have suc chances. I don't recall seeing a Operative or Commander candidate that have 10+ of these attribute (but 10 Persuasion Doplima is common).

What I do confuse about Espionage, Investigation, Command at the begining. The stats setting is kind of complex. I think that Espionage & Investigation should be merged into one (both kind of spy thing). Crackdown is kind of redundant since it's always do before a Purge.
The lease use attribute is Science, only useful to advise mission (and have no lasting effect)
tstein
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:41 pm

Re: Admin Too Strong, Suffocating Choices In Leveling.

Post by tstein »

I think it can be balanced followign soem logic that you cannot have so many people administrating same thing. So allow only the highest admin to increase your caps (and increase the effect of each admin point for that councilor).

That will push for more specialization.
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