Any ideas on brutal playthroughs after campus nerf?

[2alexey]

It is 2036, I have barely finished T3 habs, coil guns, arc lasers, fusion in space and on my way to Green lasers and some actual fussion reactors.

Alien 6k doomstack just wiped out my mars station and all mining bases on it(haven`t managed to get battlestations yet, 9 T2 defensive modules did scratch paint on a few enemy ships), nothing I can really do in space.

So, question, did I mess up something to triger total war too early, or is it about the time it would start anyway?

Also, any pointers on how to play now, there is no way to stand up to 6k battle fleet right now, so, any pointers on how the playthrough should have been? Am I too slow? How would you defend?

There s no way my habs can reasonably defend against such fleet, or bombardmet, so ... options?

[neilwilkes]

It's definitely getting harder with every update, and that is good - I believe that this is a positive thing as you simply should not ever expect to win. Winning should feel like an achievement, not a right.

[rookie.one]

It is 2036, I have barely finished T3 habs, coil guns, arc lasers, fusion in space and on my way to Green lasers and some actual fussion reactors.

Alien 6k doomstack...

Research is about what I had in my last 2 playthroughs. 6k doomstack at that time aswell. I managed to stay under the radar a bit longer though 2038/2039, till i had fleets ready to deal with the doom stacks (green phasers, fusion drives).

I might be wrong, but current meta is propably stay under the radar as long as possible with little to no space based research (at least on brutal) or try to advance your weapon tech early on (green arc lasers and advanced missiles) and be the first faction to go to war.

What I have seen in my last 2 playthroughs is that the Aliens send out single ships to deal with a thread (asteroid mining base / hab / fleet). Should those ships survive they refuel and reinforce the next fleet until they reach doomstack values. Being aggressive early on, forcing the Aliens to attack you and actually win fights/trade might hinder that enough for you to catch up. Problem with being agressive early on is the low resource income/reserve and a limited supply of earthbased MC. And from reading your other posts, you'll have to build a ton of "useless" ships (fission powered destroyers, monitors, maybe escorts) to defend early on.

/edit: The last time I was the first faction to go war with the aliens was in in .27, with me having green arc laser and lars drive powered ships in 2028. In my last 2 playthroughs (.42+ and .49+) I reached that tech level around 2032, at which time the aliens were at war with all other non pro factions.

[quisatzleto]

It all comes down to the MC.

The brute cap is 50 - above that and the computer will remind you. 50 + two technologies +25% cap = 75MC game cap.

Admittedly, there are 3 more technologies: MC optimization of stations, ships and MC but they are too late to be meaningful.

So 75MC is the amount on which you need to build technologies and resources to build a minimum of 2 fleets.

Fleet 1 to defend Mercury where you will have research. .
4-5k Fleet power + station defense should be enough

fleet2 6-9k +10 ships with 2 base modules so that when you reach Jupiter you will defend at least 16 new bases with mines.

If you can defend yourself on Jupiter - it's basically GG.

Remember that you have to destroy the alien stations on Jupiter to prevent doomfleet from refueling.

I recently destroyed their stations but left them to force the fleet to land and refuel on the surface. 18k fleet.
I waited until it started refueling for a few days then nuked it. But the computer turned on the cheat and crashed to the desktop every time.

5MC hab + 10 camp = 5+10 months
15 MC = 2000 res it is new normalnie so
1moon base full mars + 1 on earth = 2+16×2+1=27MC
27MC mining
75-27=48MCfor res
48/15=3.2 so

USA+Russia+China + 3x2000res = 1500+ 6000
On 7.5k res is słów but not tereble

[2alexey]

It all comes down to the MC.

The brute cap is 50 - above that and the computer will remind you. 50 + two technologies +25% cap = 75MC game cap.

Admittedly, there are 3 more technologies: MC optimization of stations, ships and MC but they are too late to be meaningful.

So 75MC is the amount on which you need to build technologies and resources to build a minimum of 2 fleets.

Fleet 1 to defend Mercury where you will have research. .
4-5k Fleet power + station defense should be enough

fleet2 6-9k +10 ships with 2 base modules so that when you reach Jupiter you will defend at least 16 new bases with mines.

If you can defend yourself on Jupiter - it's basically GG.

Remember that you have to destroy the alien stations on Jupiter to prevent doomfleet from refueling.

I recently destroyed their stations but left them to force the fleet to land and refuel on the surface. 18k fleet.
I waited until it started refueling for a few days then nuked it. But the computer turned on the cheat and crashed to the desktop every time.

5MC hab + 10 camp = 5+10 months
15 MC = 2000 res it is new normalnie so
1moon base full mars + 1 on earth = 2+16×2+1=27MC
27MC mining
75-27=48MCfor res
48/15=3.2 so

USA+Russia+China + 3x2000res = 1500+ 6000
On 7.5k res is słów but not tereble

The thing is, I was exactly at 75(with deception and Maskirovka), and doom fleet dropped. Do I need to be lower than 75?

Also, If I repel assault ship drops, I also assume I need to be lower?

Also, what kind of fleet? Usually I just build battleships with coils, but wouldn`t that be too much MC?

I have USA, India and China, so closer to 2.4k research from Earth. Does it make sence to go unification tech to grab more effective earth research?

[rookie.one]

The thing is, I was exactly at 75(with deception and Maskirovka), and doom fleet dropped. Do I need to be lower than 75?

Also, If I repel assault ship drops, I also assume I need to be lower?

75 is fine, as long as you don't touch the servants (a single coup might still be ok, multiple crackdown-purge combos are not). Assault Ships are a problem. While defending against alien armies doesn't generate hate itself, alien troops dropping in neutral/uncontrolled countries you are allied with puts you to war with aliens (and servants), regardless of MC cap.

Game Mechanic here: Assault Carrier drops Troops, Alien Aministration declares war on Neutral Country, you are allied with that country -> war. Happened to me in my current run, thankfull I was only off being ready for war by 3 weeks (still enough for servants to kick me out of mars).

I have USA, India and China, so closer to 2.4k research from Earth. Does it make sence to go unification tech to grab more effective earth research?

Those three are fine, if you want to expand without unification tech there is still all of Europe.

Also, what kind of fleet? Usually I just build battleships with coils, but wouldn`t that be too much MC?

Battleships are fine for going to war late, going to war earlier (especielly in .3.53 with the drastically increased build times of large hulls) you'll need to rely on smaller ships. escorts, corvettes, frigates, monitors and destroyers are all good early game hulls.

[quisatzleto]

The answer to your question is not obvious - i.e. go down to 75MC.
It depends on many factors, mainly on the year you are in because you can deduce the progress of AI from this. In my opinion, 75MC should not last longer than 40y. For an experienced 35y player. 75MC is the so-called hard cap. This means that any hostile action against a minion or alien will result in a reaction. Then the hostility will fade over time.

In desperation, you can build 20 army units from the US Navy to defeat any invasion. After that, they can accumulate resources to build their doom-fleet on plasma because it uses little alien resources.

You can try spamming with bases 10 and 50 will be producing resources for a few months.

Remember that even a 100k fleet has a limited dektaV. If they fly to Mercury, they will burn almost half of it, i.e. the 10,000K fleet will destroy one base once every few months because it will be coming back soon. If your defense fleet is 700+deltaV then the computer will never destroy it because it will catch up.

My play on brutal on new patch:
https://www.twitch.tv/quisatzleto

[2alexey]

The answer to your question is not obvious - i.e. go down to 75MC.
It depends on many factors, mainly on the year you are in because you can deduce the progress of AI from this. In my opinion, 75MC should not last longer than 40y. For an experienced 35y player. 75MC is the so-called hard cap. This means that any hostile action against a minion or alien will result in a reaction. Then the hostility will fade over time.

In desperation, you can build 20 army units from the US Navy to defeat any invasion. After that, they can accumulate resources to build their doom-fleet on plasma because it uses little alien resources.

You can try spamming with bases 10 and 50 will be producing resources for a few months.

Remember that even a 100k fleet has a limited dektaV. If they fly to Mercury, they will burn almost half of it, i.e. the 10,000K fleet will destroy one base once every few months because it will be coming back soon. If your defense fleet is 700+deltaV then the computer will never destroy it because it will catch up.

My play on brutal on new patch:
https://www.twitch.tv/quisatzleto

It is more a question of how to have any bases. AI fleet makes a trip in about 3 month, any station under construction will be destroyed by even small raiding party. At about 30s january 2038 AI sends fleets to all my stations, wipes them out, bombs everything on Mars, and keeps attacking my stations under construction.

[Ian_W]

[/quote]
It is more a question of how to have any bases. AI fleet makes a trip in about 3 month, any station under construction will be destroyed by even small raiding party. At about 30s january 2038 AI sends fleets to all my stations, wipes them out, bombs everything on Mars, and keeps attacking my stations under construction.
[/quote]

Yes. This is how the Alien 'punishment raid' strategy against human factions that are standing in their way works.

In game mechanic terms, this reduces your used MC, thus letting the Alien Hate drift down to a lower level, provided you don't do anything to annoy them further, like killing their agents or annoying their friends on Earth.

This will leave you the options of

1. Keep losing the war in space, hitting back occasionally enough to keep the hate meter high and them interested in keeping hitting you, or

2. Accept you lost this phase of the war, and zero out your used MC as all your stations, fleets and mining bases are destroyed, and wait out the Aliens until you can rebuild, accepting this will put limits on what you can do against pro-Alien factions on Earth.

You poked the Bear, the Bear smacked you, and now you're crying about it.

Also, during 2, other factions will almost certainly move behind you into Mars, and probably Mercury as well.

[2alexey]

They don't seem particularly interested in charging into my land basses on Mercury, which is a curious thing.

So, in theory the way to go is just to not rebuild my MC? I'm not too afraid of AI factions, I don't see them having enough MC and resources, at least for now.

[Ian_W]

As long as your Alien Hate is at rainbow-five, the Aliens are going to keep raiding your stuff, until it drops below that.

It will drop over time. Depending on how much you pissed them off, this may be a long time (ie measured in years).

[spoop]

The same strategys that used to work, are still the way to go

EU opening strategys with war from day 1 keeps the alien eco week enough, that they never build megastacks that u can't deal with. Rushing jupiter along the way can reinfoce that, since they cripple there eco, once you get a foothold there.

Meganation strategys will still give you more tech than you ever need, then u can use endgame ships to crush there deathstacks