Proposal: Separate Hate Meter for Total Fleet Power

Post Reply
anonusername
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:10 pm

Proposal: Separate Hate Meter for Total Fleet Power

Post by anonusername »

Currently, it is fairly easy, particularly on normal, to place a dozen dreadnoughts in strategic locations before "going hot" against the aliens. I propose that mechanic be added where the aliens notice fleets/ships above a certain combat power and target them for destruction. Your initial low-tech missile monitors may not be threatening to the aliens, but a dozen coilgun/arc laser dreadnoughts may be another matter.

As a related feature, I propose some method of "fleet secrecy" whereby a certain amount of military build-up can be done with a lower chance of triggering an alien response. e.g. The player may choose to build their ships in a remote lagrange point and keep the engines powered off until they are ready to strike. Sending the fleet to rally in Low Jupiter Orbit would be more noticeable to the aliens, and likely provoke them to prepare a fleet of their own to meet it.
DarthVicious
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2022 7:38 pm

Re: Proposal: Separate Hate Meter for Total Fleet Power

Post by DarthVicious »

Most of this is already covered by in game mechanics. I am guessing you just might not have come across them yet. Ships cost Mission Control, as do major research hubs. Both are major drivers for alien hate.

There are also technologies and faction modifiers which play into this. But I leave you to find your own spoilers.

You would not be able to build a dozen dreadnoughts (and the infrastructure to support them) without tripping the hate meter twice over unless you have researched the appropriate techs for deception, etc.
Richard Baxton held off four waves of mind worms. We immediately purchased his identity manifests and repackaged him into the Recon Rover Rick character. People need heroes. They don't need to know he died clawing his eyes out, screaming for mercy.
neilwilkes
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2022 10:44 am

Re: Proposal: Separate Hate Meter for Total Fleet Power

Post by neilwilkes »

Truly.

I have to abandon my playthrough at 2036 simply because the nerf to Research Campus' has tipped me so far over the caps with greatly reduced benefits there is probably no way back. Still have the save file though, but just started a new attempt with current validation build.
DarthVicious
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2022 7:38 pm

Re: Proposal: Separate Hate Meter for Total Fleet Power

Post by DarthVicious »

Welcome to my world.

Each playthough I made it a bit further before painting myself into a corner. Painful to start from scratch. Each time.
Richard Baxton held off four waves of mind worms. We immediately purchased his identity manifests and repackaged him into the Recon Rover Rick character. People need heroes. They don't need to know he died clawing his eyes out, screaming for mercy.
anonusername
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:10 pm

Re: Proposal: Separate Hate Meter for Total Fleet Power

Post by anonusername »

DarthVicious wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:28 am Most of this is already covered by in game mechanics. I am guessing you just might not have come across them yet. Ships cost Mission Control, as do major research hubs. Both are major drivers for alien hate.

There are also technologies and faction modifiers which play into this. But I leave you to find your own spoilers.

You would not be able to build a dozen dreadnoughts (and the infrastructure to support them) without tripping the hate meter twice over unless you have researched the appropriate techs for deception, etc.
I am aware of that, but the MC is static regardless of the combat strength of your ships. There is a big difference between building dreadnoughts with railguns vs. coilguns (or IR laser vs. green phaser) in terms of threat to the aliens. I always research the deception techs and focus on cost efficiency until I am ready to fight, so I had a substantial resource/MC stockpile available to build my fleet. 12 dreadnoughts/lancers (I went half and half) is 48 MC, and with 2 deception techs on normal the hate limit is, IIRC, over 150. My overall MC usage prior to the build-up was ~90, and I scrapped about 5MC of existing ships, so I was well within the hate limit. I was able to first-strike one of the alien bases in the asteroid belt, although I lost most of the fleet due to not realizing just how well-fortified the alien habs are.

Obviously the dynamic would change on Veteran or Brutal, but I haven't played those difficulties yet.

The upcoming changes to the research will make it harder to get such advanced ships in the early-mid 2030s, but it is entirely feasible to delay the showdown until 2040, at least on normal. Also, spamming research stations was never conducive to having lots of spare MC anyway. (IIRC, my most advanced save only had 1 research station in mercury orbit, and I didn't fight the aliens until after they invaded Earth in the late 2030s. I know this wasn't the optimal strategy, but it is definitely feasible.)

Edit: It appears in the current stable branch, the hate per MC is 0.192 with 2 deception techs, and 0.1536 with 3. Given that the maximum hate value before retaliation is 50, most factions can safely go up to 255 MC (+49 hate) with 2 techs and 319 MC with 3 techs. Some factions (HF, maybe Resistance?) have a static +10 hate, limiting them to 203MC (+39 hate) with 2 techs and 253MC with 3 techs. On veteran the hate generation is doubled, so those numbers would be halved. If you are playing the servants, then the numbers are different. (But if you are playing servants none of this matters.)

Edit2: Looking at the game code, it seems I was wrong about the faction-based hate. The penalty for HF (and resistance) is +20, not +10. However, this *does not* stack with the MC hate penalty. The game simply takes the maximum of the MC hate and the faction hate and uses that as the floor. The actual function of the HF/Resistance hate appears to be preventing peaceful relations with the aliens while at low MC values.
Ian_W
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:10 pm

Re: Proposal: Separate Hate Meter for Total Fleet Power

Post by Ian_W »

The question is not 'Can the humans build a fleet that can fight the aliens before going to war ?'

The question is 'Can the humans build an equivalent technology fleet that can beat the aliens in a frontal fight before going to war ?'

Yes. It's true. High tech ships do get you more bang for the same MC buck, and that's okay, because you can't charge low-tech human fleets at a Alien station and destroy said station for no losses.
Post Reply