As it says. It just doesn't make sense, if a division gets wiped out, why would that sink their ships?
I had xenos nuke south Balkans, destroying 6/8 of the EU army and wiping out all of EU navy just like that. Are the ships supposed to have been in port
Okay, game mechanics-wise the navies do not exist separate from armies, which is also questionable.
Barleyman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 3:00 pm
As it says. It just doesn't make sense, if a division gets wiped out, why would that sink their ships?
I had xenos nuke south Balkans, destroying 6/8 of the EU army and wiping out all of EU navy just like that. Are the ships supposed to have been in port
Okay, game mechanics-wise the navies do not exist separate from armies, which is also questionable.
Agreed its very silly - it MIGHT make sense if the army was destroyed on the coast, but far inland? The game absolutely needs to let you assign navies to armies, and change them. WTF would the 101st Airborne be deployed in Chicago or Denver, with a navy? To make it a bit fair, I suggest that transferring navies takes some time and holds your armies a bit. If you have inland armies that need a navy, they can perhaps only be assigned while sitting on the coast, outside their base, costing Investment Points. Nevertheless, lots of improvements need to be made to this system, but naval destruction along with their armies is indeed the first thing that needs to be changed/improved.
Considering navies reduce investment points AND cost 100 investment points to build, they should probably be just a flat "this is how many armies you can move overseas at a time" instead of the current system of fleets attached to armies. What they do compared to the upfront and over time costs they incur on a nation, they should really either be way more genericaly useful (ie. not attached to anything) or much, much cheaper. If they added actual naval fleets onto the map that did something, then maybe the 100 points would be reasonable.
Compared to MC that you can get for 25 a pop, Orbital Defence Batteries you can get for 50 and armies you get for 60, that 100 for an admitedly usefull army movement feature is still way WAY too much comparatively. Especialy since its about as permanent as the army its atta- oh and my army just died in the middle of mongolia because I wasnt paying attention and now their fleet... positioned... where exactly? sank with it???
When an army with a navy is destroyed, the home nation gets a bunch of IPs in the Build Navy priority. It gets more if the army was in its home nation, and more if the navy had naval dominance. This represents reconstituting the force within the game's existing mechanics.
Obviously wet navies are extremely abstracted in this game; we just put a limit on the feature set there so we could actually complete the game; expanding it is something on our roadmap for potential expansions.
I'll add documentation of this effect to the codex.
It feels like the naval aspect of the earth game is an area where there was a developmental punt. It isn't so much a good/bad system so much as a 'there are bigger fish to fry' system that exists because the other systems force the naval system to exist. It is like in a movie where the script writers nudge you away from thinking about a particular point. You pretty much accept it and move on, because pulling apart the nudge away from the topic isn't going to have a satisfying solution.
That being said, I think maybe there should be a system here. While developmental resources are not unlimited, developing some systems will pay off more than others and in ways that make other parts of the game flow better.
1. TI is a game of ship to ship combat. It would be mental to not include a screenshot of ship to ship combat in an accurate depiction of the game.
2. Ship to ship combat does not happen until the player makes a very large time investment into the game. Imagine if somebody suggested that tactical missions in XCom didn't occur until the mid-game. You would really question notion.
3. The space combat UI is actually quite good when you understand it... but maybe not quite so good prior to that point.
Building out a naval combat system from the space combat system that was in 2D instead of 3D would be a mechanical step with lower cognitive load than dumping the player feet first into space combat.
Having naval ship to ship combat present as gameplay from the very beginning of the game will deliver on a major selling point of the gameplay experience from the beginning.
Dealing with post WW2 naval combat will force a developmental solution to naval aviation... but I feel like this is a problem that likely ought to be solved and then brought over to the space combat side of things.
Barleyman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 3:00 pm
As it says. It just doesn't make sense, if a division gets wiped out, why would that sink their ships?
I had xenos nuke south Balkans, destroying 6/8 of the EU army and wiping out all of EU navy just like that. Are the ships supposed to have been in port
Okay, game mechanics-wise the navies do not exist separate from armies, which is also questionable.
While I agree that navies not existing separately from armies is questionable, they did have good reasons for it. (See dev response above).
That said, between the refund you get into Navy investment and nuclear attacks being explicitly defined as a salvo (rather than a single bomb) it's not really unreasonable IMO. Nations that don't have "Armies" on the global map still have armed forces; these armed forces might not be capable of global force projection, but they're still capable of inflicting casualties on invaders, including the ships and transport aircraft that support the invasion. A division being destroyed also represents casualties to their attached naval assets from fighting with the enemy coastal defence fleet and air force at sea (see for example the way the Moskva was sunk IRL by a nation with no navy a few months ago). And there's no reason why a barrage of modern nuclear missiles aimed at destroying an enemy military unit couldn't target some naval assets at sea while they're at it, with allied warships and space stations, not to mention the uncountable satellites that are too small and low-level for our Council to bother micromanaging directly, in orbit providing targeting data.
