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So I've seen a few posts re snapshot and the bug where it's stuck on the snapshot icon/option without having used any AP but what I haven't seen is any mention of also, having used no AP, there is a massive aim penalty against just one of the enemy. I frequently, nay ALWAYS seem to have just one of the enemy that has an 80-100% aim penalty listed as "Snapshot". Anyone else get this? Is this a bug or "working as intended"? It is LW after all......

Please read the extended description of Snap Shot by clicking the yellow question mark above the perk in the perk tree.

johnnylump wrote:Please read the extended description of Snap Shot by clicking the yellow question mark above the perk in the perk tree.

Thanks for the reply @johnnylump. Yep, thinking about it, there's likely a variance in the tile distance at ss range. Sorry, still getting used to all the differences in this....must get fed up repeating "read the description" to numbskulls like me

That penalty is why I never use Snapshot. Just feels like a bad Ranger with a holotargeter at that point.

Devon_v wrote:That penalty is why I never use Snapshot. Just feels like a bad Ranger with a holotargeter at that point.

The idea is to keep your snapshotter a little back, that way when pods activate the will likely not take cover that's defended well against the snapshotter, letting them move well into some flanks with the crit perks. Admittedly I don't think it's that strong anyway.

Manifest wrote:

Devon_v wrote:That penalty is why I never use Snapshot. Just feels like a bad Ranger with a holotargeter at that point.

The idea is to keep your snapshotter a little back, that way when pods activate the will likely not take cover that's defended well against the snapshotter, letting them move well into some flanks with the crit perks.

Except that they will take cover from the rest of the squad, which is in front of the snapshotter and thus also covered from them. It's Phantom snipers who get easy flanks because they can afford to go out on a flank without activating more pods. If I wanted a soldier to hang back in blue move range and hope an alien makes a dumb move pretty much anyone other than a Sharpshooter is the way to go. Assaults are built for that.

You're basically giving up the one special advantage the class has in exchange for being able to do what everyone else does better.

Devon_v wrote:

Manifest wrote:

Devon_v wrote:That penalty is why I never use Snapshot. Just feels like a bad Ranger with a holotargeter at that point.

The idea is to keep your snapshotter a little back, that way when pods activate the will likely not take cover that's defended well against the snapshotter, letting them move well into some flanks with the crit perks.

Except that they will take cover from the rest of the squad, which is in front of the snapshotter and thus also covered from them. It's Phantom snipers who get easy flanks because they can afford to go out on a flank without activating more pods. If I wanted a soldier to hang back in blue move range and hope an alien makes a dumb move pretty much anyone other than a Sharpshooter is the way to go. Assaults are built for that.

You're basically giving up the one special advantage the class has in exchange for being able to do what everyone else does better.

My enemies will very often take side cover. Remember that "front" is arbitrary. Pods are very frequently not directly in "front" of the squad.

Devon_v wrote:That penalty is why I never use Snapshot. Just feels like a bad Ranger with a holotargeter at that point.

Yep, time to retire my snapshotter off to a haven methinks

Manifest wrote:

Devon_v wrote:

Manifest wrote:
The idea is to keep your snapshotter a little back, that way when pods activate the will likely not take cover that's defended well against the snapshotter, letting them move well into some flanks with the crit perks.

Except that they will take cover from the rest of the squad, which is in front of the snapshotter and thus also covered from them. It's Phantom snipers who get easy flanks because they can afford to go out on a flank without activating more pods. If I wanted a soldier to hang back in blue move range and hope an alien makes a dumb move pretty much anyone other than a Sharpshooter is the way to go. Assaults are built for that.

You're basically giving up the one special advantage the class has in exchange for being able to do what everyone else does better.

My enemies will very often take side cover. Remember that "front" is arbitrary. Pods are very frequently not directly in "front" of the squad.

But what specific benefit are you getting from the Sharpshooter? What are they doing that an Assault doesn't do better? Slug Shot and Run and Gun deliver more damage, can stack crit, are generally more accurate out of the box and are attatched to a more survivable delivery system. Rapid Fire also comes in before Double Tap.

Devon_v wrote: Slug Shot and Run and Gun deliver more damage, can stack crit, are generally more accurate out of the box and are attatched to a more survivable delivery system. Rapid Fire also comes in before Double Tap.

If you're comparing them both doing the same long range job, the most tangible benefit would be that Sharpshooters can do this every turn without every having to go up close, and they can also stack crit (in fact that's what the snapshot tree basically is), and I would not at all say that Assaults are more accurate, sharpshooters definitely are, with more reliable damage spread (albeit weaker of course, yes). If you're suggesting that assaults are more accurate then maybe you're talking about getting up close enough to get a range buff? In that case, obviously you're risking more pod activations.

I would say the 5 extra range accounts for and is more useful than survivability.

This of course, doesn't account for the utility of the Arc Thrower, but nobody can do a Snapshot's specific job **purely** better without several downsides. Which is to stay just out of sight range and look for out of sight-range flank crits. As it turns out though, this job is too specific and isn't that great. I think you're ignoring that I said that Snapshots definitely aren't very strong.

In fact I think removing the range and aim penalty from snapshot would still be perfectly balances. Hell, even just letting snipers move and shoot without any perks would be reasonable.

Genghison wrote:

Devon_v wrote:That penalty is why I never use Snapshot. Just feels like a bad Ranger with a holotargeter at that point.

Yep, time to retire my snapshotter off to a haven methinks

You can retrain at the AWC. It takes time, but it's a thing you can do.

Despite the game telling you, constantly, that perk choices can never be changed.

Snap Shot as it stands currently is, well, pretty much awful. I have come up with a suggestion that I think would make it a viable perk, would like to see what others think:

http://www.pavonisinteractive.com/phpBB ... 15&t=23822

I always take snapshot for my baby snipers, lategame though I respec them into full squadsight again. Snipers are imo the most useless class early game, snapshot makes them not so useless earlygame.

dimvision wrote:I always take snapshot for my baby snipers, lategame though I respec them into full squadsight again. Snipers are imo the most useless class early game, snapshot makes them not so useless earlygame.

Rapid targetting is pretty good early. Handing out +10s while skirmishing with a pistol gets work done. It can really help when early soldiers can't get better than a 70 against exposed targets.

Snipers are fantastic every time there's no timer, especially when Shinobi are spotting for them. I firmly believe that Shinobi should spot for everyone. I use them to confirm Run and Guns and paint squadsight targets. They're like starting the game with a Concealment Scout via Kiryu Kai, except you can mass produce them almost at will.

That's why Run and Gun doesn't pop pods for me, because the Shinobi already gave the all clear for the point-bank no-miss shotgun to the face. Slug Shot is just insurance for the occasions that point-blank isn't an option.