Questions/feedback about Smash & Grab

trihero
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:01 am

Questions/feedback about Smash & Grab

Post by trihero » Thu May 18, 2017 8:28 pm

I like the new mission type a lot!

Feedback:

When I was looking at this post by one of the long war crew, they said specifically
Smash & Grab

The new mission type for 1.3, these are going to be your primary source of alloys and elerium and a major source of supplies. Unlike other timed missions, the reinforcements won’t start dropping until the timer runs out, but once it does they’ll be dropping every turn. S&Gs are moderately difficult, harder than Troop Columns but easier than Supply Raids. As with Extracts, you start these missions without concealment, meaning that a scout with the Phantom ability is useful.
I've done 5-6 smash and grabs so far in my rookie run through, and none of them have yielded any elerium or supplies even though I grabbed all 4-5 crates every time. Maybe it's just bad rng, but I was expecting a "primary source of elerium and major source of supplies" and have not found that to be the case. I have indeed gotten alloys every time and a bunch of other random items, but I still find that troop column/supply raids are vastly preferable, profitable, and and desirable for farming elerium/supplies.

Question:

What determines the the S&G availability? While in the early game (pre-october) I regularly saw these missions, this entire past 2 months of November and October I have seen none at all. I have 2 regions at Strength 3, both with 13 rebels on intel, and although I've been flooded with counter ops/troop ambushes/hack missions/supply raids left and right, I haven't seen any S&G. Is it just bad RNG or something?

Overall I love the mission type, although I still feel like troop ambushes/supply raids seem to be more rewarding and desirable overall since they give more elerium/alloys and also reduce strength in the world.

Antifringe
Posts: 226
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:52 pm

Re: Questions/feedback about Smash & Grab

Post by Antifringe » Thu May 18, 2017 8:51 pm

I think this is just random distribution. I've been getting 40-100 supplies regularly during the first few months.

Smash and Grabs are just normal General Ops, and follow the same rules as the others. The wiki has it all. You'll stop seeing them when vigilance hits 13, which is also the cut off point of most of the other GOps. If you are getting lots of the other GOps, that is just RNg. I get more S&Gs then I can reasonably play.

S&G aren't supposed to be as good as troop ambushes and supply raids. They're a GOp, after all.

trihero
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:01 am

Re: Questions/feedback about Smash & Grab

Post by trihero » Thu May 18, 2017 8:57 pm

S&G aren't supposed to be as good as troop ambushes and supply raids. They're a GOp, after all.
But if you read the quote I directly took from saph7, one of the long war crew, from this link

http://www.pavonisinteractive.com/phpBB ... 15&t=25843

It clearly says

"The new mission type for 1.3, these are going to be your primary source of alloys and elerium and a major source of supplies."

I appreciate saph7's effort in that thread and in no way am I making any negative attacks, but is it accurate to say that this quote is misleading? I think it is misleading because my primary source of alloys/elerium remain supply raids/troop ambushes.

And reading your post very carefully, antifringe, you are also not getting any elerium from S&G. You just happen to get more supplies than I do. Are S&G meant to provide a good/steady source of elerium?

Antifringe
Posts: 226
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:52 pm

Re: Questions/feedback about Smash & Grab

Post by Antifringe » Thu May 18, 2017 9:00 pm

They are your primary source. At least, they are for me. Supply raids and troop ambushes are jackpots that don't happen all that often. Smash and Grabs are steady payouts that you get all the time.
And reading your post very carefully, antifringe, you are also not getting any elerium from S&G. You just happen to get more supplies than I do. Are S&G meant to provide a good/steady source of elerium?
Don't be so literal. I get elerium from S&G most of the time. I didn't mention it. I also didn't mention that I gain xp and take wounds, but that doesn't mean those don't happen as well.

EDIT: Here are the tables, straight from the config. I'm reaonably certain that the numbers in the headers are the force levels:
Spoiler: show
;; Smash N Grab Mission Loot (per crate)
+LootTables = ( TableName = "SmashNGrab_LW_0", \\
Loots[0]=(Chance=30,MinCount=4,MaxCount=6,TemplateName="AlienAlloy",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[1]=(Chance=10,MinCount=4,MaxCount=6,TemplateName="EleriumDust",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[2]=(Chance=50,MinCount=25,MaxCount=30,TemplateName="Supplies",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[3]=(Chance=5,MinCount=1,MaxCount=1,TemplateName="EleriumCore",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[4]=(Chance=5,MinCount=1,MaxCount=1,TemplateName="AdventDatapad",RollGroup=1) \\
)

+LootTables = ( TableName = "SmashNGrab_LW_3", \\
Loots[0]=(Chance=30,MinCount=5,MaxCount=7,TemplateName="AlienAlloy",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[1]=(Chance=10,MinCount=5,MaxCount=7,TemplateName="EleriumDust",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[2]=(Chance=50,MinCount=30,MaxCount=35,TemplateName="Supplies",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[3]=(Chance=5,MinCount=1,MaxCount=1,TemplateName="EleriumCore",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[4]=(Chance=5,MinCount=1,MaxCount=1,TemplateName="AdventDatapad",RollGroup=1) \\
)

+LootTables = ( TableName = "SmashNGrab_LW_6", \\
Loots[0]=(Chance=30,MinCount=7,MaxCount=9,TemplateName="AlienAlloy",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[1]=(Chance=15,MinCount=7,MaxCount=9,TemplateName="EleriumDust",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[2]=(Chance=40,MinCount=35,MaxCount=40,TemplateName="Supplies",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[3]=(Chance=10,MinCount=1,MaxCount=1,TemplateName="EleriumCore",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[4]=(Chance=5,MinCount=1,MaxCount=1,TemplateName="AdventDatapad",RollGroup=1) \\
)

+LootTables = ( TableName = "SmashNGrab_LW_9", \\
Loots[0]=(Chance=30,MinCount=9,MaxCount=12,TemplateName="AlienAlloy",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[1]=(Chance=15,MinCount=9,MaxCount=12,TemplateName="EleriumDust",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[2]=(Chance=40,MinCount=40,MaxCount=45,TemplateName="Supplies",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[3]=(Chance=10,MinCount=1,MaxCount=1,TemplateName="EleriumCore",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[4]=(Chance=5,MinCount=1,MaxCount=1,TemplateName="AdventDatapad",RollGroup=1) \\
)

+LootTables = ( TableName = "SmashNGrab_LW_12", \\
Loots[0]=(Chance=30,MinCount=12,MaxCount=14,TemplateName="AlienAlloy",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[1]=(Chance=20,MinCount=12,MaxCount=14,TemplateName="EleriumDust",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[2]=(Chance=30,MinCount=45,MaxCount=50,TemplateName="Supplies",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[3]=(Chance=15,MinCount=1,MaxCount=1,TemplateName="EleriumCore",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[4]=(Chance=5,MinCount=1,MaxCount=1,TemplateName="AdventDatapad",RollGroup=1) \\
)

+LootTables = ( TableName = "SmashNGrab_LW_15", \\
Loots[0]=(Chance=30,MinCount=14,MaxCount=16,TemplateName="AlienAlloy",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[1]=(Chance=30,MinCount=14,MaxCount=16,TemplateName="EleriumDust",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[2]=(Chance=20,MinCount=50,MaxCount=55,TemplateName="Supplies",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[3]=(Chance=20,MinCount=1,MaxCount=1,TemplateName="EleriumCore",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[4]=(Chance=5,MinCount=1,MaxCount=1,TemplateName="AdventDatapad",RollGroup=1) \\
)

+LootTables = ( TableName = "SmashNGrab_LW_18", \\
Loots[0]=(Chance=30,MinCount=16,MaxCount=18,TemplateName="AlienAlloy",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[1]=(Chance=30,MinCount=16,MaxCount=18,TemplateName="EleriumDust",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[2]=(Chance=10,MinCount=55,MaxCount=60,TemplateName="Supplies",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[3]=(Chance=30,MinCount=1,MaxCount=2,TemplateName="EleriumCore",RollGroup=1), \\
Loots[4]=(Chance=5,MinCount=1,MaxCount=1,TemplateName="AlienDatapad",RollGroup=1) \\

trihero
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:01 am

Re: Questions/feedback about Smash & Grab

Post by trihero » Thu May 18, 2017 9:05 pm

Antifringe wrote:They are your primary source. At least, they are for me. Supply raids and troop ambushes are jackpots that don't happen all that often. Smash and Grabs are steady payouts that you get all the time.
And reading your post very carefully, antifringe, you are also not getting any elerium from S&G. You just happen to get more supplies than I do. Are S&G meant to provide a good/steady source of elerium?
Don't be so literal. I get elerium from S&G most of the time. I didn't mention it. I also didn't mention that I gain xp and take wounds, but that doesn't mean those don't happen as well.
Elerium is very relevant to the post, while xp/wounds aren't. That should be obvious. Don't be so trolly.

They aren't the primary source for me for elerium, does anyone else experience this? I do agree it is a good source of alloys and supplies.

Antifringe
Posts: 226
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:52 pm

Re: Questions/feedback about Smash & Grab

Post by Antifringe » Thu May 18, 2017 9:07 pm

I'm not being trolly. It is my serious and sincere opinion that you are being too literal and are thereby not understanding me. I also didn't mention alloys, I'm getting those too. Anyways, I just posted the the loot tables so you can look at them and judge for yourself.

User avatar
8wayz
Posts: 340
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:59 pm

Re: Questions/feedback about Smash & Grab

Post by 8wayz » Thu May 18, 2017 9:22 pm

You can still get elirium, though in the early missions the chance is a lot lower. However you can use the extra alloys and supplies to buy elirium crystals and cores from the Black Market.

You can always make up for the rng.
Last edited by 8wayz on Thu May 18, 2017 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

trihero
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:01 am

Re: Questions/feedback about Smash & Grab

Post by trihero » Thu May 18, 2017 9:25 pm

Thanks for the loot table, that helps a bunch. I see now that elerium dust is actually 1/3rd as rare as alloys, so maybe that is why I have literally seen zero so far even though I have done 5-6 S&Gs. It also helps to see why I'm not seeing S&G anymore at a late stage in the game because I've been lighting up these 2 regions with tons of missions so the vigiliance is probably over 13 by now.

It's ok for me to mention elerium, and it not being too literal, and it doesn't mean I don't understand you, antifringe. I sincerely apologize for saying "trolly", but in all fairness you also have to admit your "too literal" accusation makes little sense as well since I remained extremely close to topic. I've seen my fair share of alloys so that's why I had no reason to ask about your lack of saying things about alloys, if that makes sense.

I find that my primary source of elerium is the black market (20-30'ish a month) + supply raids + troop columns (50-60 a month). I don't understand why saph7 billed the S&G as the primary source of elerium, can someone explain how S&G is the primary source of elerium?

User avatar
8wayz
Posts: 340
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:59 pm

Re: Questions/feedback about Smash & Grab

Post by 8wayz » Thu May 18, 2017 9:32 pm

If you do on average 2 Smash and Grab missions per region per month, that can net you on average 5 elirium/mission in the early game. You can use the rest of the loot to buy elirium from the black market.

So the Smash and Grab missions per month can net you around 40-50 elirium, among other things. The more regions you are active in, the more elirium you will get. Troop columns are very risky depending on your infiltration time and you will skip some of them.

If you try to do a breakdown of your missions for a period of 6 months ( I did one back in Long War 1), Smash and Grab missions will come on top due to their regularly and flexibility. They will/should net you around 50-60% of your alloys and elerium (counting mission rewards + what you can buy from the Black market when you sell the rest of the loot).

trihero
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:01 am

Re: Questions/feedback about Smash & Grab

Post by trihero » Thu May 18, 2017 9:37 pm

Well I appreciate your feedback 8ways, but I find that

1) you cannot factor in the elerium from the black market as specifically due to S&G. I have been able to afford the elerium from the black market without S&G. You cannot count the black market as "smoothing over" the rng of S&G, since I can simply buy elerium anyways without S&G.

2) I'm in late november, and I've made 0 elerium from S&Gs since the beginning of the campaign. I've also had a huge preponderance of supply raids/troop columns showing up (I've seen and done about 10 of these combined versus 0 S&Gs in the last 2 months). It makes sense because the vigiliance is so high in these zones so I'm getting these mission types, and they are way more lucrative and consistent for elerium. Given these data, I cannot see how in the long term that S&G are a "primary source" of elerium.

Maybe it makes more sense to bill S&G as a minor, supplemental source of elerium, that would solve the issue.

Jadiel
Posts: 214
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:28 am

Re: Questions/feedback about Smash & Grab

Post by Jadiel » Thu May 18, 2017 9:46 pm

1) I think you can. I use the BM as a means of smoothing over the RNG on VIP extract missions. If I find myself unusually low on either Scientists or Engineers (due to RNG), I can go and pick one up from the BM. The fact that I could have bought an engineer or scientist anyway doesn't change the fact that you can use the BM to smooth out RNG.

2) You're taking your experience from one single 1.3 campaign, and arguing against people who have played far more 1.3 than you. How do you know that it's not just mission RNG in your playthrough? If it is, you'll look pretty silly...

mattprice516
Long War 2 Crew
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:49 am

Re: Questions/feedback about Smash & Grab

Post by mattprice516 » Thu May 18, 2017 9:52 pm

IIRC the relative rarity of each resource changes as force level changes. Elerium starts out rare and becomes more common later in the game. The quantity of each in a crate also increases with force level.

trihero
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:01 am

Re: Questions/feedback about Smash & Grab

Post by trihero » Thu May 18, 2017 9:55 pm

I would consider the black market an independent source of elerium. In fact, I would consider it one of the main sources of elerium itself. Since elerium is so scarce as the game progresses, I make buying it whenever its available a priority. Tying it to S&G specifically makes no sense. We can all agree that the black market is a primary source of elerium.

I'm not trying to argue with anyone, just trying to understand for myself why what I see doesn't coincide with what was billed as a "primary source" of elerium. If it is purely due to RNG, it doesn't make me look silly I would be just be happy to know the answer for sure. I'm not trying to impress or argue or spread anything negative, just looking at hard data, looking at my experience: 0 elerium from S&Gs. My elerium sources are black market, troop columns, supply raids, and that makes perfect sense especially as the game goes on when S&G frequency goes down if you spike vigilance high.

If anything, I don't think anyone has actually tried to record how much elerium they got from S&G versus the other source over the course of the game (except for me, which admittedly could be just due to RNG but I've gotten 0 so far, and even if I had gotten say 30-50 total that is not a primary source!). If they have, go ahead and post it then so we can evaluate the claim that S&G are a "primary source" of elerium. I know a previous poster posted a theoretical 2 S&G per month and (questionably) associated black market elerium with S&G, but if we remove black market elerium as giving credit to S&G and look at hard data, what is the reality?
IIRC the relative rarity of each resource changes as force level changes. Elerium starts out rare and becomes more common later in the game. The quantity of each in a crate also increases with force level.
Yes that's true by the loot table antifringe provided. One interesting point to make though is that S&G will naturally become less prevalent as my game shows due to vigiliance spiking so you shift towards troop ambushes/columns, so the end product is even though elerium from S&G crates becomes more likely, going on S&Gs itself is less likely which counteracts the trend of increased elerium intake from S&G specifically.

User avatar
8wayz
Posts: 340
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:59 pm

Re: Questions/feedback about Smash & Grab

Post by 8wayz » Thu May 18, 2017 10:16 pm

You seem to be cutting off Smash and Grab missions too early in my opinion.

If you escalate Vigilance too fast, naturally you will see more supply missions and troop columns as the aliens try to reinforce the region. If on the contrary, the region is semi-active and you have some agents on Hide, then Vigilance should drop and you should see 1 or even 2 Smash and Grab missions per such region. The Smash and Grab mission has a fairly high chance to be detected so you will find them even with just a few agents on Intel.

In my humble opinion it is probably your play style that is making the Aliens throw more aggressive missions your way.

Concerning the Black Market you can not consider it as an independent source, because you actually have to exchange some of your loot for the items you need. On a mission you do not exchange anything to influence the end result of what loot you get.

Moreover, this is the primary function of the Black Market in Xcom 2 - not to get more Credits/Supplies, but to shop for what you need the most. In Xcom 1 you could only obtain credits from the Grey Market there.

At the end of the day, if you use those 60+ supplies to buy 20-30 elirium counts against the rewards you get from that single mission. It amounts to basic conversion.

Saph7
Long War 2 Crew
Posts: 167
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:00 pm

Re: Questions/feedback about Smash & Grab

Post by Saph7 » Thu May 18, 2017 10:24 pm

trihero wrote:I find that my primary source of elerium is the black market (20-30'ish a month) + supply raids + troop columns (50-60 a month). I don't understand why saph7 billed the S&G as the primary source of elerium, can someone explain how S&G is the primary source of elerium?
I'm kind of flattered that you're paying so much attention to my guide, but it's not gospel. Just because I used the word 'primary' this does not mean that This Is The One Truth That Must Be Adhered To At All Costs Lest Terrible Fates Befall You. It's just a (fairly quickly written) introduction to get you started. You're supposed to work out the details on your own.

If you aren't getting enough elerium from S&Gs, render a core. That should keep you going until midgame.

Plockets
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:58 am

Re: Questions/feedback about Smash & Grab

Post by Plockets » Thu May 18, 2017 10:25 pm

In my campaign, I was swimming in elerium from SnGs from the beginning of the game, but was quite alloy starved by November. I ran out of alloys (even after buying 29 on the BM) with about 100 elerium left while building warden armors (and having already made a dozen or so coil weapons). So I would say the RNG clearly has a large say in which resource becomes the limiting factor, based on our 2 experiences.

trihero
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:01 am

Re: Questions/feedback about Smash & Grab

Post by trihero » Thu May 18, 2017 10:38 pm

I'm not having problems getting elerium. I know how to render cores, and I usually render faceless corpses since I don't prefer to use the other products of faceless corpes. I guess I was just overexcited when reading the "transition to 1.3 guide" billing S&G as the "primary source" of elerium.

The most useful, substantive and relevant responses in this thread were the inclusion of the loot table, and also saph7's response that the quote he wrote wasn't meant to be gospel. I think based on those responses I'm satisfied with my understanding of S&G as a source of elerium. My conclusion after this discussion would be more like "S&Gs are a supplementary, if sometimes unreliable, source of elerium dust." I think that's a fair description.

Antifringe
Posts: 226
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:52 pm

Re: Questions/feedback about Smash & Grab

Post by Antifringe » Fri May 19, 2017 6:54 am

So, I just got a Smash and Grab in a Vigilance 18 region, which should be impossible. I decided to check the config, to see if the wiki is wrong. And it is, as it turns out. Smash and Grabs have no limitations at all, which is something that no other General Op has.

This is really good. It's a significant increase to the amount of activity that you can generate in very high vigilance regions, and lengthens the "middle age" usefulness of such regions. Previously, the only missions you could get were Dark Events (rare, especially in 1.3, which massively reduced their frequency), UFOs (very rare), Supply Convoys (great, but difficult to detect and requires that the ADVENT AI to be actively reinforcing the region) and Troop Columns (great, but they stop after Vigilance 15).

8ways wasn't kidding about S&Gs being easy to detect, either. Their base discovery chance is 60%, which is extremely high (most other Gops are in the 30s).

Thrair
Long War 2 Crew
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:37 am

Re: Questions/feedback about Smash & Grab

Post by Thrair » Fri May 19, 2017 8:49 am

Yeah. They're really easy to detect, as they're meant to be the main income source, though you still need Supply Raids/Troop Columns/Rendevous to get corpses.


Any event, iiirc there was a change towards S&G resource distribution towards the latter half of 1.3s development cycle... Since elerium is less necessary early on and can be rendered from cores in a pinch, some of the resource weight early-game was shifted to alloys (Which were becoming a bottle-neck early-mid game).

By late-game, Elerium should be about as common as the alloys, while Supplies (which you should have a lot of from havens) falls off heavily.

gimrah
Long War 2 Crew
Posts: 421
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:25 pm

Re: Questions/feedback about Smash & Grab

Post by gimrah » Fri May 19, 2017 11:09 am

Thrair wrote:Yeah. They're really easy to detect, as they're meant to be the main income source, though you still need Supply Raids/Troop Columns/Rendevous to get corpses.


Any event, iiirc there was a change towards S&G resource distribution towards the latter half of 1.3s development cycle... Since elerium is less necessary early on and can be rendered from cores in a pinch, some of the resource weight early-game was shifted to alloys (Which were becoming a bottle-neck early-mid game).

By late-game, Elerium should be about as common as the alloys, while Supplies (which you should have a lot of from havens) falls off heavily.
Yes, because otherwise we found we had stack of crystals and not enough alloys by mid game.

So if you get no supplies early that's unlucky. If you get no elerium early, that's to be expected. I recommend holding onto your first crystals to fund hybrid materials research. Once you've done that you can render cores for 8 crystals a pop.

Jadiel
Posts: 214
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:28 am

Re: Questions/feedback about Smash & Grab

Post by Jadiel » Fri May 19, 2017 1:46 pm

It's also worth baring in mind that trihero's experience may come from his Rookie playthrough, where he has researched Plasma in August. If you're trying to build Plasma weapons in August, you're going to find that Elerium is a bit of a bottleneck.

Dwarfling
Posts: 519
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:16 pm

Re: Questions/feedback about Smash & Grab

Post by Dwarfling » Sat May 20, 2017 2:31 am

Luck dependant I guess. This is from a Light SnG in a strenght 5 region in June 8th. Legendary. 5 chests. I don't remember exactly all the loot I grabbed but I did get it all.

Image

Previous to this mission I got mostly Supplies and Alloys from SnG, not sure if Data Pads also or it could have been corpse loot.

prokolyo
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:29 am

Re: Questions/feedback about Smash & Grab

Post by prokolyo » Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:02 am

As soon as the timer expired (10 turns I think, or 12), reinforcements started coming every turn, like 5 turns in a row before I bailed. Legend difficulty but only middle of April, and in a strength 2 region... Is this normal?? Strong ones too - mecs, gunners, 3s and 4s...

tarkalak
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:27 pm

Re: Questions/feedback about Smash & Grab

Post by tarkalak » Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:20 pm

Yes. It is even said in the first post in the thread.

You are supposed to get everything you want and get out before (or just as) the timer expires. The officer skill Intervention is especially useful on this one.

prokolyo
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:29 am

Re: Questions/feedback about Smash & Grab

Post by prokolyo » Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:28 pm

Yeah, but if you look at this https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Rei ... ents_(LW2), they shouldn't be coming every turn. Perhaps S&G has a different schedule though. I know that it's not good to overstay this one - I usually am out before the timer ends or right about the first/second RNF, but never seen them come every turn after the timer is up (about 2000 hrs of play). So I was wondering why...

Post Reply