Free Equipment Skills Unbalanced by Mobility Malus

[Mooncabbage]

So I'm a fair way into my campaign, and I've noticed a lot of my guys seem suddenly very very slow. Turns out, Extra Grenade type skills also reduce mobility. Which sort of makes sense, but not really. For example, I recently AWC trained one of my assault troops, to get a bonus flashbang. It seemed like a good deal. But with the additional -1 mobility, it's extremely penalising, especially as there is no option to remove it. On the other hand, the Grenadier's Heavy Ordinance skill doesn't seem to do this.

Anyway, now I have a very slow assault troop, who I guess I can un-equip the other stuff from to speed up, but then, what was the point of the skill? I suppose my point is, is it possible to balance these perks so that they are worth taking? Are there/could there be any equipment options that don't reduce mobility?

[trihero]

I am unclear why you believe that free grenade skills impair mobility. I just fact checked in my save file and it doesn't. I have a shinobi with the flashbanger perk. Her mobility is 15 (naked), which is exactly what you would expect from someone with no utility slots.

The free flashbang doesn't reduce her mobility, so I would like to know why you think it does.

[Valaska]

I am unclear why you believe that free grenade skills impair mobility. I just fact checked in my save file and it doesn't. I have a shinobi with the flashbanger perk. Her mobility is 15 (naked), which is exactly what you would expect from someone with no utility slots.

The free flashbang doesn't reduce her mobility, so I would like to know why you think it does.

Yeah same boat here, free smoke grenade and doesn't seem to change her mobility at all. 17 mobility and when naked, moves 17.

[Mooncabbage]

Interesting. She had -4 mobility malus, and I'm not aware of assault troops getting extra equipment slots. Thus, I assumed it had to be the bonus free grenade. I will look into it more closely.

[8wayz]

I can confirm that the free explosive grenade does reduce Mobility by 1.

Since all my grenadiers take it, all have a -4 malus. Please note that this will only activate if you have a HE grenade in the grenade slot.

It is probably meant as a balance malus to make you think twice when bringing a lot of extra grenades.

The mobility malus does not go away if you have used the grenades during a mission, at least not for the moment.

[Mooncabbage]

I can confirm that the additional flashbang reduces movement by 1. Just checked my assault trooper with flashbang, and she has 2 frags and alloy plating, and a -3 to movement in the barracks. In combat with the extra flash, it becomes -4. While normally an extra -1 movement for a grenade seems fair enough, in the case of a perk I feel it should have no movement cost. Otherwise it's just a terrible perk. It'd be better if it was an extra grenade only equipment slot, because then I could atleast choose whether I wanted it on a mission.

It also sucks as an AWC perk, as you can't unlock the next tier defensive perk unless you take it.

[DabHand]

Yep l have a grenadier lugging a -5 mob penalty thanks to a "free smoke grenade" AWC perk. Maybe its certain class and awc perk combos? i.e not all, but yeah not welcome given how important mob is.

[LordYanaek]

Now, that's annoying. I never noticed this, but then i didn't really checked the mobility in combat compared to the mobility out of combat.
Thought i'm not sure it's actually one, you might want to report this as a bug because if it's supposed to work this way, then we should at least be able to unequip the grenade when we don't want the movement penalty.

Fix would probably be to add +1 mobility to that perk but i' looked at the ini and the only place where flashbanger is mentioned is in XComLW_AWCPack.ini and there is only this line

Code: Select all

+AWCAbilityTree_Defense=(Level=1, AbilityName="Flashbanger",	ApplyToWeaponSlot=eInvSlot_Unknown)

So i suppose it's hard coded somewhere.

In the mean time, if you don't want to deal with reduced mobility, you might want to comment that line (and the one for free smoke) thought it will only remove those skills from newly trained soldiers.

[RXTXK]

It is frustrating that this does not show in the UI at the squad select stage.
Also frustrating that I've just put an AWC flashbanger on a high mobility shinobi thinking it was free.

How extreme can this go, say we have a low mobiltiy guy with all the extras from grenadier incl full kit plus smoker an flashbaner, can we get down to zero mobility?

[JulianSkies]

It is frustrating that this does not show in the UI at the squad select stage.
Also frustrating that I've just put an AWC flashbanger on a high mobility shinobi thinking it was free.

How extreme can this go, say we have a low mobiltiy guy with all the extras from grenadier incl full kit plus smoker an flashbaner, can we get down to zero mobility?

It can get down to seven mobility since the lowest base mobility is thirteen

[nightwyrm]

Wait, the free flashbangs/smokes perks aren't free? That's dumb. I could've just brought another flashbang in the soldier's slots instead of spending days in the tank.

[LordYanaek]

It is frustrating that this does not show in the UI at the squad select stage.

This is because the item is added when the tactical map is loaded.
It also means it's free as far as infiltration time is concerned, but not for mobility.

Does Full Kit also reduce mobility? I've only looked at the squad select but if it adds another grenade at the start of the tactical mission, then possibly a grenadier with both grenade perks and full grenade loadout could have 8 grenades, not counting "free" grenades from flashbanger or smoker perks. This could really get you to very low mobility.

Wait, the free flashbangs/smokes perks aren't free? That's dumb. I could've just brought another flashbang in the soldier's slots instead of spending days in the tank.

I would hazard it's an oversight rather then intended behavior but only the developers could confirm.

[JulianSkies]

It is frustrating that this does not show in the UI at the squad select stage.

This is because the item is added when the tactical map is loaded.
It also means it's free as far as infiltration time is concerned, but not for mobility.

Does Full Kit also reduce mobility? I've only looked at the squad select but if it adds another grenade at the start of the tactical mission, then possibly a grenadier with both grenade perks and full grenade loadout could have 8 grenades, not counting "free" grenades from flashbanger or smoker perks. This could really get you to very low mobility.

Wait, the free flashbangs/smokes perks aren't free? That's dumb. I could've just brought another flashbang in the soldier's slots instead of spending days in the tank.

I would hazard it's an oversight rather then intended behavior but only the developers could confirm.

I doubt full kit increases movement penalty. Essentially there is a -1 mobility modifier in the "throw flashbang" and "throw smoke" perks, they also have one charge each. Full kit just gives you one more charge (ie. increases the iClipSize value)

[Zyrrashijn]

That means, smoker and flashbanger do not provide any penalty as long you have a regular flashbang, smoke grenade item equipped?

[RXTXK]

I think it can go down to 6
From above heavy ordinace also seems to have an effect

therefore
Start 13
less -3 for a grenade in each of the three utility slots
less -1 for the grenade in the grendae only slot
less -1 for the explosive grenade from HE
less -1 for smoker
less -1 for flashbanger
End 6

I have yet to use full kit, does it double up each untility slot so a max of 3 extra if you fill each slot or a max of 1 extra?

Frivolously lets assume worst case that its 3 extra at -3 total that would put mobility at 3 or 2 tiles for a blue move, or basically a grenade turret.

[Hazelnut]

Well that sucks! I have several soldiers where I've taken flashbanger thinking "great, a flashbang without the move penalty" since I value movement over consumables on a lot of my troops. This is a trap AWC perk then IMO. I think I've used them a couple of times, but mostly it's just a penalty. I usually have a grenadier with FBs.

[johnnylump]

Not intended; we'll dig in. Moving to elevated bug reports thread.

[RXTXK]

I continue to be amazed by the high standard of communication and dedication to quality that you guys demonstrate in the way you react to comments here *thumbs up*.

[johnnylump]

Fix verified (requires code change), should be in 1.2, moving to resolved.

[Mooncabbage]

I am consistently stunned by the level of feedback on this forum, both from the community and the devs. Thank you all for proving I'm not crazy