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Can't resume Psi training
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:42 pm
by The Boz
My Rookie was done with Psi training, so I tried to send him back in... Can't. He's not offered.
Tried to send him on a mission. Didn't get a level. Can't continue training after mission.
Am I missing something? How does psi training work now?
Re: Can't resume Psi training
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:43 pm
by siath70
You have to level them up before train them again, they now have to go on missions.
From the patch notes 1.1
- Psi Operatives now gain three psi perks upon initial training. They must gain XP on missions to be allowed to train further. They still may choose from three perks to train and may train powerful perks early in their development, but that will require they stay in the tube for an extended period. They may only train one ability per rank so may not train further after they achieve maximum rank. Psi offense and enemy will progression reworked. Rework of psi tree to better match training times with ability power.
Re: Can't resume Psi training
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:10 pm
by The Boz
Oh, so they NEED to gain a level? OK. I can live with that.
Re: Can't resume Psi training
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:21 pm
by Daergar
The Boz wrote:Oh, so they NEED to gain a level? OK. I can live with that.
Don't fret, they will only need 72 days (on veteran, if difficulty scales it) to train the meaty abilities. Even with a scientist to lower it by 50%, that's a lot of training. I truly hope the effort is worth it (Voidrift, 72 days), which I am led to believe given how good even the basic Soulfire ability is and that thing doesn't even scale on psi power.
Re: Can't resume Psi training
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:01 pm
by trihero
I don't like the system; it takes forever to train one of the good abilities (like a month, unless you are already highly ranked and then it takes less time), you're not guaranteed to get the good abilities offered, and if you train the low level crap like soulfire's heal upgrade you gimp yourself in the future because you can't max all the perks so you wasted a slot just to try to skip to higher tiers faster. Taking psys on missions is pretty irritating until they get one of the good abilities.
I think the design perspective is they are really powerful if they get up there, which I understand: I mean, squad immunity to fire/explosions/gas/psionics? Mind control an andromedon (instant kill + summon a beefy unit)? Cooldown based aoe (null lance/void rift) that ignores cover?
But the investment is HUGE currently. HUGE HUGE HUGE. My normal troops are hitting max ranks while the psionics team are halfway ranked due to the training time + fishing for levels in between.
Re: Can't resume Psi training
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:15 am
by The Boz
Yeah, I sort of modded down some of the training times...
Re: Can't resume Psi training
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:33 am
by Arcalane
Daergar wrote:The Boz wrote:Oh, so they NEED to gain a level? OK. I can live with that.
Don't fret, they will only need 72 days (on veteran, if difficulty scales it) to train the meaty abilities. Even with a scientist to lower it by 50%, that's a lot of training. I truly hope the effort is worth it (Voidrift, 72 days), which I am led to believe given how good even the basic Soulfire ability is and that thing doesn't even scale on psi power.
Training time on abilities/powers also scales;
Code: Select all
; additional days per ability level above current psi level
PsiTrainingRankScalar[0]=10.0f ;Easy
PsiTrainingRankScalar[1]=12.0f ;Normal
PsiTrainingRankScalar[2]=12.0f ;Classic
PsiTrainingRankScalar[3]=12.0f ;Impossible
So, yes, if you insist on trying to train Void Rift on a guy who just made rank 1 psionic it is going to take forever. However if you get it later it should be less of an issue.
Re: Can't resume Psi training
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:36 am
by The Boz
Question: Does a psi need to have a "mission promotion" before *and* after each Psi training, or can I "accrue" promotions, and then train several levels at once?
Re: Can't resume Psi training
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:35 am
by Daergar
Arcalane wrote:Daergar wrote:The Boz wrote:Oh, so they NEED to gain a level? OK. I can live with that.
Don't fret, they will only need 72 days (on veteran, if difficulty scales it) to train the meaty abilities. Even with a scientist to lower it by 50%, that's a lot of training. I truly hope the effort is worth it (Voidrift, 72 days), which I am led to believe given how good even the basic Soulfire ability is and that thing doesn't even scale on psi power.
Training time on abilities/powers also scales;
Code: Select all
; additional days per ability level above current psi level
PsiTrainingRankScalar[0]=10.0f ;Easy
PsiTrainingRankScalar[1]=12.0f ;Normal
PsiTrainingRankScalar[2]=12.0f ;Classic
PsiTrainingRankScalar[3]=12.0f ;Impossible
So, yes, if you insist on trying to train Void Rift on a guy who just made rank 1 psionic it is going to take forever. However if you get it later it should be less of an issue.
See, I almost figured it was something like that, just did not give Pavonis enough credit. Completely logical and exactly how I would like to see it designed, most excellent.
Thanks for heads up!
Re: Can't resume Psi training
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:07 pm
by Zyxpsilon
There's much more to that -
XComGameData.INI- section for PSI-Training time controls...
------------------------
XComHeadquarters_PsiTrainingDays[0]=1 ;5 ;Easy
XComHeadquarters_PsiTrainingDays[1]=1 ;6 ;Normal
XComHeadquarters_PsiTrainingDays[2]=1 ;6 ;Classic
XComHeadquarters_PsiTrainingDays[3]=2 ;6 ;Impossible
; additional days per ability level above current psi level
PsiTrainingRankScalar[0]=0.5f ;10.0f ;Easy
PsiTrainingRankScalar[1]=0.5f ;12.0f ;Normal
PsiTrainingRankScalar[2]=0.5f ;12.0f ;Classic
PsiTrainingRankScalar[3]=1.0f ;12.0f ;Impossible
-----------------------
*** Defaults are after the trailing comments (( ; ))
Want some truly
Impossible odds.. earn them!!
You should see my Officers & AWC values
... the point with whatever pre-defined (by LW2 design decisions) delays is that they enforce some high'n'low "In-The-Tank" variables that should scale with their definition of "rational" limits but IMO, qualitative Squad(s) management starts with well-trained & reasonably available teams that work well together -- in -- due -- time.
Consider how many simultaneous Inflitration Missions calls-for-reaction (you might require more than 4 Squads to strike at satisfactory minimum rates) and the imposed system of semi-effective difficulty factors (+100% or else)... i'd have to stress on another issue with optimal deployments; there comes a point with Aliens/ADVENTS where even the most recent weapons & armors & items aren't "enough" to handle most conditions without facing greater odds of Squad-Wipes.
To me.. a fully promoted soldier death is just a "game-pace-breaking" event (coincidentally timed or ideally synchronized with Aliens own Self-Force-Leveling advantages) that Rookies (pending stats edges) can't really help turn-around within weeks or less.
Thus.. we still need the VERY best as often as possible. Injured or not. Better alive and willing than dead.
Somewhat faster Training steps help with it.
Yeah.. that equals to relatively easier LW2. Soooooo what -- it's
MY game.
Re: Can't resume Psi training
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:34 am
by TerribleName
My issue is I have a psi rookie who rolled three 20+ day abilities (with scientist, 30+ without). Hooray she got good powers early, but I wont be able to use her and she occupies a tube slot for a month. And then I have to take her on a mission and hope she doesnt roll all high training time abilities again. I didn't get a choice to train a more reasonable power.
I understand the intent, but the system as designed is just poorly implemented. If you want to enforce leveling on psis through requiring mission XP and adding ridiculous training time multipliers to abilities above the psi's level, why not just make them directly level based like any other class? Why bother keeping the vanilla random rolls but screwing up how the system is supposed to work so completely?
Firaxis developed a neat alternative leveling system to allow a soldier class you get midgame to catch up to the veteran soldiers. If you're going to change it, please consider investing more thought and design time, as well as testing for edge cases, such as rolling three high tier powers on psi rookies.
Re: Can't resume Psi training
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:45 pm
by Sines
TerribleName wrote:My issue is I have a psi rookie who rolled three 20+ day abilities (with scientist, 30+ without). Hooray she got good powers early, but I wont be able to use her and she occupies a tube slot for a month. And then I have to take her on a mission and hope she doesnt roll all high training time abilities again. I didn't get a choice to train a more reasonable power.
This is my problem as well. I wasn't planning on training Dominate early on, because I knew how long it would take. But with the lowest ability being Fuse (at 54 days) and the others being Void Lance and Dominate... well... I figured I might as well go all in, if I'm going to take forever to level up.
I think there's a simple solution to this. Ensure that one option is no more than 1 or 2 levels above the Psi Op. Maybe even guarantee it being at the Psi Ops level or below for 1 or 2 levels. The other two can still be random, to allow getting higher level abilities.
I like the idea of the system, but the potential to roll nothing but high level abilities can MASSIVELY stunt growth of a Psi Op. Getting Dominate as your first ability isn't nearly as good as it sounds, thanks to this system. Solace or Schism would have been fine choices for me, and I'd be quite happy with them. Relatively short training times, and good abilities. I'd even consider grabbing some non-optimal low level abilities, just to advance in rank faster.
Another sorta solution is to put back in the extra training slot. I think the answer right now is to train up multiple Psi-Ops until you get one with a decent level progression, and then work on them. But that leaves all the 'garbage' Psi Ops with nothing to do. If there was a seperate tube, I could just put her in it long term, waiting the 39 days while the other Psi Op trains up at a friendlier pace.
As a side note, I see we have .ini files to modify training time for, but I wouldn't say no to a console command that rerolls abilities. Or a mod that implements the "At least one low level ability" option.
Re: Can't resume Psi training
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:05 pm
by Arcalane
Sines wrote:Another sorta solution is to put back in the extra training slot. I think the answer right now is to train up multiple Psi-Ops until you get one with a decent level progression, and then work on them. But that leaves all the 'garbage' Psi Ops with nothing to do. If there was a seperate tube, I could just put her in it long term, waiting the 39 days while the other Psi Op trains up at a friendlier pace.
You can upgrade the psilab for a second slot once you've reached a certain point/researched a certain prereq. I'm not 100% certain on what that is (I stalled on psitech research until 1.1 came out) but I can assure you that it's an option, eventually.
Re: Can't resume Psi training
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:25 pm
by Zyxpsilon
2nd Cell unlocks at Elerium & requires a Sectoid corpse, 75ยง & 1 Core to build.
Re: Can't resume Psi training
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:33 am
by Sines
Ah. I didn't even see an option to upgrade, so I assume it was removed.