Shaped Charges.

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Tac1
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:49 am

Shaped Charges.

Post by Tac1 »

So, for numerous operations, I've been trying out Shaped Charges, and by large I've been disappointed. Nearly every single attempt progresses the same way.

Contact with the enemy, positions are taken up. Priority threat, but he's in high cover. Shaped Charge would make sure work of it... two turns from now, after I've dashed just to get in range of them. In the meantime, they have free reign to do whatever. Every single time. For the life of me, I can't get this thing to work. Even on high-mobility Grenadiers, I rarely find an instance where I'm in range that didn't take a full turn of Dashing to get there. But then I wonder, why? Why not just load grenades and blast that thing to splinters?

In the early game, I see the potential. Low ranks, not a lot of abilities, basic weapons. Forcing a priority target out of cover for a full turn of rifle fire sounds nice, I just can't get Shaped Charges to do the trick. Later on, I'll just have Sapper and frags to use, as well as Walk Fire, Demolition, and enough control that I can afford to just make brute-force flanks and the like. I thought to use them to punch holes in walls, to circumvent map design and patrols, but practically speaking I found very few opportunities that actually make that viable.

Add to the fact it deals no damage at all, I don't see why I'd ever choose them over frags, which can double as personnel removal in a pinch.
Dwarfling
Posts: 524
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:16 pm

Re: Shaped Charges.

Post by Dwarfling »

There're some things that sapper frags won't destroy but shaped charge will.

I still never even buy the shaped charges. I'd rather flashbang and hunker advance than waste a slot on some situational item. I think the item was thought for a much earlier version where you could stealth prisoner rescues. And even then hacking a door and getting a reward was always the best option. So it's an obsolete item without real use.
Tac1
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:49 am

Re: Shaped Charges.

Post by Tac1 »

Bummer, that. I liked the idea. I'd personally trade more mobility for better range on that item, even to the point of effectively sacrificing the other slots just to make room for it. As it stands, it feels like you give up a lot for something that isn't particularly useful and only in specific situations, that frankly don't come up often.
Jacke
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Re: Shaped Charges.

Post by Jacke »

There's a mod called Legacy Tactical X4 (for XCOM 2 stock, including LW2, as opposed to WotC). It has 3 grades of charges you can plant and remotely detonate in stealth, C4 for start, then X4 and E4 at later techs.

I've used C4 on Shinobi, especially on maps like Troop Columns, where I set up a defensive position. And where I think ADVENT will set up, I have the Shinobi plant the C4.

Once worked really well. Planted two charges on the far corners of a garage. Later blew up half the garage and hit several ADVENT.

So, this is a more flexible weapon that the Shaped Charge. And in all the times I've carried it into missions (dozens), that was 1 mission where it worked really well, maybe 1 or 2 others where it worked well enough to be still worth bringing.

I think Shaped Charge could work on a Jailbreak or some other mission where you blow a hole in a wall. But you could buy and haul out the Shaped Charge and for over 9 times out of 10, the mission won't allow it to be used. Too fast, too furious, not in position, no time to deploy it.

I still have the Legacy Tactical X4 mod in my current LW2 game. I've not taken a C4 charge into battle yet.
Psieye
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Re: Shaped Charges.

Post by Psieye »

They suck at removing cover: you have better options for that. They suck in the earlygame. Adv. Grenade Launcher + Volatile Mix makes them more interesting. What they excel at, is clearing LoS. I once cleared 2 whole walls just so my snipers could shoot an alien relay. Since they do no damage, they qualify for Rapid Deployment. I could also see some LoS OW traps that get activated by tearing down a wall.
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LordYanaek
Posts: 940
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:34 pm

Re: Shaped Charges.

Post by LordYanaek »

I always thought Sapper grenadiers should be able to throw those at longer ranges. That would make this perk much more attractive before CE.

I didn't really test them in combat but i think currently they would work best for a support grenadier with Rapid Deployment so he has an option to remove cover in addition to his control options. Range is the biggest issue but they are extremely strong to remove any cover 100% in their area alike Sapper (which can only somewhat reliably remove 1 tile of cover).

One thing to note about Shaped Charges is that they are the single most noisy item in the game so they might make for some nice distraction to draw pods out of their position (but that would put them to yellow alert of course).
Jacke wrote:There's a mod called Legacy Tactical X4
Last time i tested it, this mod was pretty buggy when it came to revealing you (such as revealing everyone except the guy who planted the charge) and like all of Musashi's mods, it's a very creative idea but not perfectly balanced to say the least.
gimrah
Long War 2 Crew
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Re: Shaped Charges.

Post by gimrah »

I've found them to be useless in combat due to the short range.

Yes there's the odd situation they could be used but it's too situational to use up slots for that.

Yes you can build a grenadier around ultimately making them just about usable, but you'd probably be better off building a grenadier around other things. Like fire and stings. I guess at a push it could be ok on a shooty/smokey build.

I used them a bit in 1.2 for stealthy jailbreaks with a very small team when you knew the evac would be right by the cell: stealth to evac, blow up cell wall using RD and get everyone out same turn. even that was situational.
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SonnyWiFiHr
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Re: Shaped Charges.

Post by SonnyWiFiHr »

Never used or build one. I "blame" MAL or Xwynnis and you tube. They (one of them or both) lost good soldier in effort to use it.
One question Is shaped charge cone based attack or big bomb ?
It should be cone based attack better than trench gun ( WW I weapon)
Last edited by SonnyWiFiHr on Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Psieye
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Re: Shaped Charges.

Post by Psieye »

gimrah wrote:I guess at a push it could be ok on a shooty/smokey build.
It's the only build I can think of that could use these things.
SonnyWiFiHr wrote: One question Is shaped charge cone based attack or big bomb ?
Incendiary-sized tiny AoE, shorter range than frags.
My three 8-man GOp squad Commander campaigns:
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ginyu549
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:58 pm

Re: Shaped Charges.

Post by ginyu549 »

I occasionally use them to blow up walls on "destroy the relay" missions to clear a shot for my sharpshooters.
Phaseless
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Re: Shaped Charges.

Post by Phaseless »

If they work how I think they do (you can decide when they blow and they have a very large noise radious?) I see them being useful in 2 or 3 man infiltrations where you want to sneak all the way to the objective. You could send your shinobi to one side of the map, and move along the edge of the map with the rest of the Team. When your team's path gets blocked by a pod, you could detonate your shinobi's Charge and hope the pod will move in that direction.

Is moot though if that breaks concealment for your shinobi, because how the hell is he gonna get out of that :D
Jacke
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Re: Shaped Charges.

Post by Jacke »

Phaseless wrote:If they work how I think they do (you can decide when they blow and they have a very large noise radious?) I see them being useful in 2 or 3 man infiltrations where you want to sneak all the way to the objective. You could send your shinobi to one side of the map, and move along the edge of the map with the rest of the Team. When your team's path gets blocked by a pod, you could detonate your shinobi's Charge and hope the pod will move in that direction.

Is moot though if that breaks concealment for your shinobi, because how the hell is he gonna get out of that :D
That's not how the Shaped Charge works. Think of it as a short-range environment-destroying grenade. You can't set it down in one location, move, and then detonate it at a distance. Instead, whoever's carrying it throws it a short distance and it explodes, with a small amount of damage and a larger amount of environmental damage, with a 1-tile radius. And concealment is broken for the thrower and the rest of the squad without Phantom.

If you go with the mod Tactical X4, you have to preplant the charges and move off, then detonate later at range. A Shinobi can even plant and detonate the charges without losing concealment. I find the challenges in effectively using the charges in Tactical X4 such that though they give you something you can't do in the rest of LW2, they aren't that significantly unbalancing. The same can be said for Shaped Charges.
Phaseless
Posts: 225
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Re: Shaped Charges.

Post by Phaseless »

Jacke wrote:
Phaseless wrote:If they work how I think they do (you can decide when they blow and they have a very large noise radious?) I see them being useful in 2 or 3 man infiltrations where you want to sneak all the way to the objective. You could send your shinobi to one side of the map, and move along the edge of the map with the rest of the Team. When your team's path gets blocked by a pod, you could detonate your shinobi's Charge and hope the pod will move in that direction.

Is moot though if that breaks concealment for your shinobi, because how the hell is he gonna get out of that :D
That's not how the Shaped Charge works. Think of it as a short-range environment-destroying grenade. You can't set it down in one location, move, and then detonate it at a distance. Instead, whoever's carrying it throws it a short distance and it explodes, with a small amount of damage and a larger amount of environmental damage, with a 1-tile radius. And concealment is broken for the thrower and the rest of the squad without Phantom.

If you go with the mod Tactical X4, you have to preplant the charges and move off, then detonate later at range. A Shinobi can even plant and detonate the charges without losing concealment. I find the challenges in effectively using the charges in Tactical X4 such that though they give you something you can't do in the rest of LW2, they aren't that significantly unbalancing. The same can be said for Shaped Charges.
Oh ok. So apparently with the tactical mod you could actually do what I described, otherwise not.
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