LW2 1.5 Technical Builds - especially LCpl perk

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Jacke
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LW2 1.5 Technical Builds - especially LCpl perk

Post by Jacke »

I'm interested in hearing about what you like in Technical perks and builds.

I kind of understand the trade-offs between the perks in a Technical build. Some of them are quite tricky. Formidable makes a tougher Technical. But taking it means passing up Tandem Warheads and Phosphorus. Some good perks like Fire and Steel are likely to not be picked just because the alternatives, Javelin Rockets and Incinerator in this case, are just so much better.

I can see at least 4 good builds: Rocketeer, Shootier, Flamer, and Hybrid. Most of first 3 wouldn't be just all left, centre, or right-side, but would likely have 1 to 2 picks from the others.

My main question here is about the first perk selected for this Hybrid Technical.

EDIT: Dwarfling and others below discuss their Technical builds. That's lead me to revise some of my thoughts. Dwarfling's build is:


Technical
Fire in the Hole - Napalm X - Burnout - Formidable - Incinerator - Quickburn - Bunker Buster


To get Formidable and avoid scratching the paint on MECs my Specialists may soon acquire "pre-owned" for XCOM, I decided to forgo Phosphorus. Still undecided about the others. I find Roust useful, but also see the power of Fire in the Hole to make rockets more accurate. Burnout is a good defensive power to allow the Technical to make close flame attacks from low cover more safely; despite the power of Shredder, I may take it. Quickburn would likely be paired more with Firestorm or Rapid Fire, but like in Dwarfling's build, I'd be tempted to take Bunker Buster for the terrain destruction. With Bunker Buster I would definitely take Fire in the Hole and likely Salvo.

I may go with mostly Roust+Burnout+Quickburn+Firestorm Flamer Technicals with a small number of Fire in the Hole+Shredder+Salvo+Bunker Buster Rocketeers


Technical
Roust / Fire in the Hole - Napalm X - Burnout / Shredder - Formidable - Incinerator - Quickburn / Salvo - Firestorm / Bunker Buster / Rapid Fire


These Technicals will fill Haven advisor roles, perhaps trained to 2Lt or Lt as officer. They will also accompany the fighting squads on other missions. Most likely to go with the first of any pair of perks mentioned for a rank. Last two perk choices would be linked. Which would make this Hybrid more a Flamer.

So for the first perk, which one? I'm excluding Suppression as that would be for a dedicated Shooter build, which I don't feel I want for this role.

Roust has a low chance of setting fires (20% on targets and tiles) but can clear overwatches and force the enemy hit to move.

But that's traded off against Fire in the Hole. I've been tempted to fire rockets as the 2nd action of a Technical. The scatter isn't pretty.

Roust is also impossible to aim up or down. Just finished a Defend the Data Tap. The Haven advisor Technical on the ground floor of one building could fire Roust across the gap to the next building. But couldn't aim it up 1 floor to hit an ADVENT Trooper.

But does Roust inherit the other Flamer perks? Does picking Napalm X, Burnout, Phosphorus, Incinerator, and Quickburn improve Roust? I figure it's got to be true for Burnout and Quickburn, not likely true for Incinerator. But do Napalm X and Phosphorus improve Roust?
Last edited by Jacke on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Root
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Re: LW 1.5 Technical Builds - especially LCpl perk

Post by Root »

Flamethrower technicals can just go down the right side. I use this build if they have high Def and weak Aim. AFAICT Roust does benefit from all the relevant talents. With Incinerator it's pretty big. Some people ditch Roust for more accurate rockets, but I like to go all-in on fire. Usually I give them SMGs for better mobility and a little extra sneakiness for ambushes, but sometimes I'll do a shotgun instead for more point blank fun.

Higher Aim techs get rocket talents except for the concussion rocket. Shredder is decent utility, and Burnout is a nice defense, and I just can't get good use out of a rocket that shields the bad guys. Sometimes I grab Tac Sense instead of Salvo, though a double rocket attack is hilarious. Idk if it's that practical, but the Bunker Buster is also extremely funny.
gimrah
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Re: LW 1.5 Technical Builds - especially LCpl perk

Post by gimrah »

FitH all day. Roust is ok but without FitH you're basically giving up on using the rocket. Even if you go all flame afterwards take FitH. I always regret it when I don't.
Root
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Re: LW 1.5 Technical Builds - especially LCpl perk

Post by Root »

gimrah wrote:FitH all day. Roust is ok but without FitH you're basically giving up on using the rocket. Even if you go all flame afterwards take FitH. I always regret it when I don't.
This time around I'm trying for a bit more finesse, so I'm barely using rockets and explosives anyway. My flame techs are either burning stuff, running in for a finishing shot, or hunkering to draw enemy fire. I do have a couple rocket techs, but they're hard to use without destroying loot/bodies, and I often wish I'd just specced them all for flame/defense.

Oh, and one of my favorite combos is Roust + Area Suppression. If the gunner is at least Sgt and specced right, it's pretty much a sure kill even against tough targets in high cover.
hamds28
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Re: LW 1.5 Technical Builds - especially LCpl perk

Post by hamds28 »

I don't use technicals all that much, although I would love to. My main problem is that technicals lose me loot, and being AOE, they lose me a lot of loot. How do you people get around that? I like rockets and flamethrowers, but chances are that slamming that rocket into a pod will cost me up to two cores, which is a lot of supplies. What am I doing wrong here?
Jacke
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Re: LW 1.5 Technical Builds - especially LCpl perk

Post by Jacke »

hamds28 wrote:I don't use technicals all that much, although I would love to. My main problem is that technicals lose me loot, and being AOE, they lose me a lot of loot. How do you people get around that? I like rockets and flamethrowers, but chances are that slamming that rocket into a pod will cost me up to two cores, which is a lot of supplies. What am I doing wrong here?
Use the rocket against tough enemy or to destroy cover or wallls. Last rocket I fired was at the Muton on a Defend Data Tap. Took out a Drone as well, but just tickled the Muton. And shredded all his armour. 3 Resistance Fighters then continued the tickling with their Rifles and that was the end of the Muton.
gimrah
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Re: LW 1.5 Technical Builds - especially LCpl perk

Post by gimrah »

If rockets kill outright, it's because you high-rolled. I regard loot destruction as a high quality problem most of the time.

Might be different on rookie or vet when you are more likely to gib enemies with the explosive. See also needle grenade perk - that's never a good choice on higher diffs.
Dwarfling
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Re: LW 1.5 Technical Builds - especially LCpl perk

Post by Dwarfling »

I seem to build my technicals pretty much the same, a flamethrower-rocket hybrid that focuses on crowd control and cover destruction, thinking more on the late game where the gauntlet damage falls off hard against T3, instead of the immediate payout in early and mid game where technicals are already one of the strongest soldiers you'll have. I deploy these almost exclusively in short missions, which is like 90% of the game anyways.

LCPL: Fire in the Hole. Because Roust gets pretty lackluster as the game goes on (also the free move can work against you), and having an accurate rocket very often makes the difference between wasting an action and winning a mission. The rocket damage also gets lackluster as the game goes on, but the environment damage and shred does not, which lets rangers and gunners do max damage.

CPL: Napalm X. This is mostly to normalize the results you get out of your flamethrower attacks. While Biggest Booms is now good and Fortify is the best defensive skill, I need to know that if I use a flamethrower I'm gonna get a CC. Which is pretty much what I deploy Technicals for when T3 shows up.

SGT: Burnout. Enables you to more safely use half cover for better flamethrower attacks. Shredder is ok, but I this technical spec uses SMGs and I don't deploy them on long missions so usually they have something better to do rather than shoot.

SSGT: Formidable. Phosphorous is still rather meh and Tandem is terrible (disabling scatter doesn't necessarily mean you won't roll a 2 or a 3). Formidable reduces wound time and provides another way to screw up with enemy AI.

TSGT: Incinerator. No question about how good this is, while Javelins are mostly situational.

GSGT: Quickburn. Around this time I'm deploying Technicals with EXOs and extra flamethrower charges. Tac Sense is good but doesn't measure up anymore.

MSGT: Bunker Buster. These technicals carry SMGs so no point in RF and Firestorm is situational and just plain harder to use, whereas Bunker Buster will reliably do what you want it to do (you took FitH) and can be used from safety.
quarter
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Re: LW 1.5 Technical Builds - especially LCpl perk

Post by quarter »

gimrah wrote:FitH all day. Roust is ok but without FitH you're basically giving up on using the rocket. Even if you go all flame afterwards take FitH. I always regret it when I don't.
Honestly, I've learned to live without FITH. The spread is usually around 1.5-2 tiles if you shoot on first action without FITH. It might not be "dead on balls accurate" but it'll get the job done most times. And Roust has saved me so many times on enemies behind full cover far away. You make up for the low percentage to ignite on Roust by making sure to ignite the tiles around them, then roust makes them move through those tiles which now have the full percentage to ignite. :D
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SonnyWiFiHr
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Re: LW 1.5 Technical Builds - especially LCpl perk

Post by SonnyWiFiHr »

Tank Technical is my favorite. -10 def - Tank Technical. They survive
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Jacke
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Re: LW 1.5 Technical Builds - especially LCpl perk

Post by Jacke »

Dwarfling I like that build of yours and your justifications, but I'm also inclined like gimrah to limit rockets to first action and use Roust to move ADVENT out of cover and to remove overwatch, even if it does just have a 20% chance to light both enemy and tiles aflame. I do use Technicals with Rifles and as Haven advisors, so I'm in a bit of a dfferent spot. Should switch to SMG for squad Technicals to get better concealment and for better mobility to position for flame attacks.

For later ranks, I can see picking Burnout over Shredder, much as I would like to have Shredder, as my Gunners will have it and there's always explosives, Acid Grenades, and Shredder Rounds.

Formidable over Phosphorus is a bit more tricky, as pods will have robots and without Phosphorus there'll be no robot damage nor armour shredded. I'm going with Formidable on my Assaults and Gunners. On Grenadiers, Formidable is in a similar position as on Technicals. Goes up against Bluescreen Bombs, a Perk aimed at robots. Any build planning to carry Flashbangs is very tempted to take Bluescreen Bombs. Those without Flashbanks, like the Sapper or Gunsmoke Grenadier, go with Formidable.

Having Roust makes taking Phosphorus more tempting, as that long shot will not just move ADVENT, it will damage robots and shred armour. Of course, when the Specialists get Full Override, then robot damage isn't wanted, which is just the opposite of Bluescreen Bombs.

Can come down to a short battle versus long battle view, same as with Grenadiers. Long battles would best be served by carrying a Rifle and more centre column perks (besides Fire and Steel). But getting the correct left and right column perks makes those limited rocket and fire shots better in both short and long battles. And if taking Technicals on long battles, it's more when to use those limited shots.

Mostly to avoid scratching the paint on MECs I'm planning to acquire "pre-owned", I think I'll go without Phosphorus because I can get the awesome Formidable. Still mulling over other power choices. Have updated the first post.
Psieye
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Re: LW 1.5 Technical Builds - especially LCpl perk

Post by Psieye »

FitH unless I'm contemplating a weird mutator to the barracks. If I was churning out a surplus of Technicals and suppression Gunners to flavour my campaign differently, then I could go for Roust. If I want every one of my few Technicals to count, FitH. The 0-scatter accuracy is essential when your squad is placed wide and there are cars in problematic positions.

So really, the question of which LCpl Technical perk to take depends on what your playstyle is. Builds should (assuming the game is well balanced) adapt to your default tactics, not the other way around.
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Phaseless
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Re: LW 1.5 Technical Builds - especially LCpl perk

Post by Phaseless »

Personally I opt against Napalm x because that reduces my tech to a flamer and he's useless if not in range or if enemies are not nicely clumped up in a cone. So I take that perk that gives nades more oomph.
I also take Burnout though because it's so damn good and it makes up for formidable quite nicely while protecting the tech when he is usually the most exposed.

But I can see the Appeal of Napalm x certainly.
Noober
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Re: LW 1.5 Technical Builds - especially LCpl perk

Post by Noober »

Napalm is very good for additional chance to CC if burning chance fails and panic is even better then burning as the target doesn't move.
As for limitation to a flamer - it's not true.
I personally prefer using EXO with +1 rocket ratehr then +2 flame for reliable distant cover destruction. At MSGT with gautlet II I have 3 very reliable way to remove the hardest cover at a long distance and 2 very good CC skill for close conbat.
Very powerful and very versatile build.
The most difficult choice for me is quickburn vs Salvo as they basically do the same for different secondaries and all others are an auto-pick.
Dwarfling
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Re: LW 1.5 Technical Builds - especially LCpl perk

Post by Dwarfling »

The problem with not having FitH is that you can't the count on a 2.0 scatter rocket (4 tile variance) to do its thing other than in the center. And that's the difference between blowing up relevant cover hitting 3 enemies and just damaging the guy in the center and not even blowing up its cover. It can even get as worse as destroying objectives because the 3rd pod decided to hug a chest, a cell or take cover around the VIP truck and you got no other options to dig them out. For that reliability you give up the Roust, which is nice and I get it sometimes when I feel like it, but Roust is just more and more gambling (can your rocket hit where it matters? Will Roust do enough damage to finish the enemy? Will it maybe set the target on fire? Will the free move put them close to a flank?) and it's something I try to minimize. Plus I take Bunker Buster and that's two accurate rockets.

As far as Phosphorous goes, I think it's just subpar because T2 Gauntlet damage is not very high, T2 robotics usually come with 3 armor and the flamethrower doesn't pierce, so you're looking at say, 4 damage on average. That's like a tickle to a Heavy MEC. It's not bad, but it's just "ok" compared to Formidable. My technicals do have a tendency to get shot at and having 5 ablative saves you infirmary time.
Padishar
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Re: LW2 1.5 Technical Builds - especially LCpl perk

Post by Padishar »

I find only two pretty straightforward Technical builds interesting, rocketeer and the pyromaniac.

Rookie aim 68+: Assault rifle rocketeer
LCPL - Fire in the Hole - Combines well with the high aim to have <1.0 scatter even at long ranges. And can even shoot rocket after a blue move and it's still pretty accurate.
CPL - Biggest Booms - Rockets destroy cover but they also need to hurt a bunch of nasties. I'm not a fan of Fortify because of its crazy cooldown.
SGT - Shredder - These are all accurate rifle guys who will shoot a lot. Phosphorus is good but my rocketeers are often not close enough to the enemy to use flamers. Concussion Rocket is just weird, making opponents harder to hit.
SSGT - Formidable - It hurts to not take Tandem Warheads, but I got Biggest Booms so I'd rather opt for an excellent defensive perk this time.
TSGT - Fire and Steel - All three are worth picking. My reasoning here is that I usually am close enough to action with these guys that Javelin is often irrelevant. And Incinerator is a tool against a larger crowd, but this guy packs rockets for that purpose. Finally Fire and Steel increases rocket damage, even if it is just 1, compensating lack of Tandem Warheads a bit. It also makes flamer better against single targets, when the size of the cone is not that important, by increasing both initial damage and burning damage. Single targets are the most likely targets for flamer attacks with my rocketeer builds.
GSGT - Salvo - Rocket into rifle shot against exposed targets, or just move to a better cover. Flashbang into overwatch etc. Good flexibility.
MSGT - Bunker Buster - Rockets' main purpose is often to destroy cover, and this acts as an extra rocket. Easy choice with Fire in the Hole.

PCS is usually health or defense. Equipment is an assault rifle, extra rocket from the heavy suit, ablatives, and the rest of the slots could be pretty much anything (or empty for +1 mob). Pistol speccing from AWC is good for technicals, and they can carry flashbangs and medkits as well.

Low aim is fine, but high mobility is needed: Petrol
LCPL - Roust - Thread discusses FitH and some say it is absolutely necessary, but I've found the flamer spec can hit with its one rocket well enough. Just target a pretty scattered group and some of them will get in the blast radius. But it cannot be shot after a blue move, max scatter of 6 is too crazy. Roust is quite useful with it's long range, and because I give these fellas extra gas tanks from heavy suit, I get also an extra Roust. If someone gives flamer spec an extra rocket, FitH is likely the better perk choice.
CPL - Napalm-X - Like I said, I'm not a fan of Fortify. Crowd control is a great side effect for flamer, even if it is RNG.
SGT - Burnout - 20 extra def is quite good, and can be combined with Aid Protocol to allow some risky flamer charges.
SSGT - Phosphorus - These guys act in the frontline and would benefit from Formidable for sure, but I'm not going to skip those excellent flamer buffs provided by Phosphorus.
TSGT - Incinerator - With the previous flamer perks it's more important to have a wider area of effect than extra damage from Fire and Steel. Now that flames shred armor and can cause panic, it's crucial to hit as many targets as possible.
GSGT - Quickburn - The other two perks cannot compete with Quickburn for this build.
MSGT - Firestorm - One could argue for Bunker Buster to give some other utility to this build, but ultimately I want to benefit from those earlier perks with Firestorm as well. And without FitH the Buster can be lackluster.

PCS can be mobility if HP is sufficient. Otherwise HP, defense, or emergency life support are the options. Weapon is SMG class always for mobility. Other gear is ablatives+vest for survivability, with the third being pretty much any throwable thing, medkit, pistol if AWC-trained for it, or just an empty slot.
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