Why can't I find a facility lead?

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nullpointer
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Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:36 pm

Why can't I find a facility lead?

Post by nullpointer »

I could've sworn I've gone on at least 20+ missions with Find A Lead in the description after liberating my first region but I've never found a single Facility Lead to research. The doom clock is now up to 18/20 and I'm forced to make a run for the Forge or have my playthrough end.

What am I doing wrong? Could sure use any help.
faket15
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Re: Why can't I find a facility lead?

Post by faket15 »

Protect Research (the activity that gives facility leads) isn't really easy to detect with a reasonable amount of time remaining. Even in a full haven with everyone running Intel, a Scientist Advisor and a Radio Tower detecting the mission with 6+ days remaining is still not much better than a coinflip. A haven with 50 Mission Intel per day barely passes 20% chance.
stefan3iii
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Re: Why can't I find a facility lead?

Post by stefan3iii »

They're very hard to find. I managed to get 1 in my campaign.

Prioritize Find a Lead missions that have an Intel Package.
Jj001
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:19 pm

Re: Why can't I find a facility lead?

Post by Jj001 »

I'm pretty sure it's random. I usually get between 1-3 per campaign. Sorry you are having bad luck. I can understand your frusteration.
Psieye
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Re: Why can't I find a facility lead?

Post by Psieye »

I always feel bad when I read these posts because I once picked up a facility lead off a corpse while doing some random mission.
My three 8-man GOp squad Commander campaigns:
1st
2nd
3rd
LordYanaek
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Re: Why can't I find a facility lead?

Post by LordYanaek »

faket15 wrote:Protect Research (the activity that gives facility leads) isn't really easy to detect with a reasonable amount of time remaining
This!

I did some calculations and posted very rough estimates some time ago but no longer have the number. The bottom point is you'll nearly never detect them with more than 4 days (usually much less) so you're likely to ignore them if you don't have a squad with very fast infiltration (maximum 4 soldiers) that's capable of completing those. I have found 5 i think in my current campaign but it's by January second year. I never found one outside of those missions (neither as loot or as Skullmining reward).

Those missions are easier to detect in regions with a facility so it's always a good idea to take note of where facilities are located (you can learn the location of hidden facilities from the pop-up that shows up when they gain a doom point).

Taking an HQ also reduces AVATAR progress by 1 which can help a lot so trying to complete more than 1 liberation is probably a good idea (and the free Radio towers will help you detect missions more easily).
nullpointer
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Re: Why can't I find a facility lead?

Post by nullpointer »

Psieye wrote:I always feel bad when I read these posts because I once picked up a facility lead off a corpse while doing some random mission.
I hate you so much now :lol:
LordYanaek wrote:
faket15 wrote:Protect Research (the activity that gives facility leads) isn't really easy to detect with a reasonable amount of time remaining
This!

I did some calculations and posted very rough estimates some time ago but no longer have the number. The bottom point is you'll nearly never detect them with more than 4 days (usually much less) so you're likely to ignore them if you don't have a squad with very fast infiltration (maximum 4 soldiers) that's capable of completing those. I have found 5 i think in my current campaign but it's by January second year. I never found one outside of those missions (neither as loot or as Skullmining reward).

Those missions are easier to detect in regions with a facility so it's always a good idea to take note of where facilities are located (you can learn the location of hidden facilities from the pop-up that shows up when they gain a doom point).

Taking an HQ also reduces AVATAR progress by 1 which can help a lot so trying to complete more than 1 liberation is probably a good idea (and the free Radio towers will help you detect missions more easily).
Thanks, that kinda explains it. I've been jumping at Find A Lead missions that have Intel Package for many months now, but not a single facility lead. Didn't realise they would be this hard to find.
virtualangel
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:59 pm

Re: Why can't I find a facility lead?

Post by virtualangel »

Check in your Research.

I made a mistake and didn't realize I had a Facility Lead for a long time the first time I ran through.
xmd1997
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Re: Why can't I find a facility lead?

Post by xmd1997 »

If you get desperate I reccommend installing this mod by RealityMachina. Allows you to find Facilities on your own term at the cost of time and you can only use it on liberated regions too.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... =861998742
Methexis
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Re: Why can't I find a facility lead?

Post by Methexis »

Maybe someone can verify this, but I was just reading about Skullmining and it writes that it can give you facility leads. Anyone tried it?
stefan3iii
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Re: Why can't I find a facility lead?

Post by stefan3iii »

Methexis wrote:Maybe someone can verify this, but I was just reading about Skullmining and it writes that it can give you facility leads. Anyone tried it?
Nope doesn't work in LW2, think it was vanilla only. I've skullmined a LOT of enemies and never seen a facility lead from one.
Hellraptor
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Re: Why can't I find a facility lead?

Post by Hellraptor »

Honestly, I just dunno what am I doing wrong, but in like 3 commander difficulty playthrough I lost to avatar project, because not once I found a facility lead. Missions became ridiculous aswell, as in a extremely light recover item mission in an advent strength 2 region I encountered a pack with OP gatekeeper and 2 snakes, other pack was !!! 3 !!! andromedons and a final just an elite officer with a longbow mec. A moderate convoy raid in my own liberated region, with 150% inflitrated had a pack with 2 sectopods, 2 elite mutons, 2 longbow mecs and a sectoid commander. But that's all why crazy hard, isn't gamebreaking. But Avatar project is. I'd play on easier difficulty, but then game isn't even any fun or challenging for first few months. Gonna go play good ol' xcom long war 1 again I think.
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WanWhiteWolf
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Re: Why can't I find a facility lead?

Post by WanWhiteWolf »

Hellraptor wrote:Honestly, I just dunno what am I doing wrong, but in like 3 commander difficulty playthrough I lost to avatar project, because not once I found a facility lead. Missions became ridiculous aswell, as in a extremely light recover item mission in an advent strength 2 region I encountered a pack with OP gatekeeper and 2 snakes, other pack was !!! 3 !!! andromedons and a final just an elite officer with a longbow mec. A moderate convoy raid in my own liberated region, with 150% inflitrated had a pack with 2 sectopods, 2 elite mutons, 2 longbow mecs and a sectoid commander. But that's all why crazy hard, isn't gamebreaking. But Avatar project is. I'd play on easier difficulty, but then game isn't even any fun or challenging for first few months. Gonna go play good ol' xcom long war 1 again I think.
This is kinda'of a problem in LW2. Without taking down facilities, your timer will ramp up faster than you can complete your golden path missions.

Taking down facility - which is basically a heavy supply raid - is not a particularly difficult mission end game, provided you send the proper squad. Finding a facility is usually pure RNG. If you don't find one you are likely to lose or be close to losing the campaign, regardless of other aspects.

To mitigate this, you can start doing skullmine (July) and bank intel so that you are prepared to do in November Codex Coordonates / Forge ...etc to survive the Avatar timer.

The mod that adds the job to hunt down facility seems a nice balance overall. It's not cheap (rebels for this job need to be in a liberated region ; which means you sacrifice reliably supply income) but it's good when everything else fails. It doesn't seem to work on on-going campaigns (at least it doesn't work for me) so it's a decision you have to take at the start of the campaign.
Hellraptor
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Re: Why can't I find a facility lead?

Post by Hellraptor »

WanWhiteWolf wrote:
Hellraptor wrote:Honestly, I just dunno what am I doing wrong, but in like 3 commander difficulty playthrough I lost to avatar project, because not once I found a facility lead. Missions became ridiculous aswell, as in a extremely light recover item mission in an advent strength 2 region I encountered a pack with OP gatekeeper and 2 snakes, other pack was !!! 3 !!! andromedons and a final just an elite officer with a longbow mec. A moderate convoy raid in my own liberated region, with 150% inflitrated had a pack with 2 sectopods, 2 elite mutons, 2 longbow mecs and a sectoid commander. But that's all why crazy hard, isn't gamebreaking. But Avatar project is. I'd play on easier difficulty, but then game isn't even any fun or challenging for first few months. Gonna go play good ol' xcom long war 1 again I think.
This is kinda'of a problem in LW2. Without taking down facilities, your timer will ramp up faster than you can complete your golden path missions.

Taking down facility - which is basically a heavy supply raid - is not a particularly difficult mission end game, provided you send the proper squad. Finding a facility is usually pure RNG. If you don't find one you are likely to lose or be close to losing the campaign, regardless of other aspects.

To mitigate this, you can start doing skullmine (July) and bank intel so that you are prepared to do in November Codex Coordonates / Forge ...etc to survive the Avatar timer.

The mod that adds the job to hunt down facility seems a nice balance overall. It's not cheap (rebels for this job need to be in a liberated region ; which means you sacrifice reliably supply income) but it's good when everything else fails. It doesn't seem to work on on-going campaigns (at least it doesn't work for me) so it's a decision you have to take at the start of the campaign.
Man, I skullmined the crap out of these guys, never had any facility leads. Same with Intel Package missions, never a single lead.
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WanWhiteWolf
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Re: Why can't I find a facility lead?

Post by WanWhiteWolf »

Hellraptor wrote: Man, I skullmined the crap out of these guys, never had any facility leads. Same with Intel Package missions, never a single lead.
Skullmine gives you only intel, unfortunately. On higher difficulty you need to start doing this early; otherwise you straight up lose to Avatar. The fact that a single contact costs 200 intel, means you need 8 missions with intel reward just for a single region. And the intel missions are the ones who typically go on low priority due to other, more appealing missions.

On the current campaign, I haven't found a facility either. I reduced the avatar bar with 2 days remaining on campaign fail.

It shouldn't be this much RNG in winning a campaign. The purpose of RNG is to create diversity and force player to adopt alternative strategies - depending on what you roll. Unfortunately, as far as facility leads go, there is no alternative to counter a bad roll (e.g. no finding them).
Hellraptor
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Re: Why can't I find a facility lead?

Post by Hellraptor »

WanWhiteWolf wrote:
Hellraptor wrote: Man, I skullmined the crap out of these guys, never had any facility leads. Same with Intel Package missions, never a single lead.
Skullmine gives you only intel, unfortunately. On higher difficulty you need to start doing this early; otherwise you straight up lose to Avatar. The fact that a single contact costs 200 intel, means you need 8 missions with intel reward just for a single region. And the intel missions are the ones who typically go on low priority due to other, more appealing missions.

On the current campaign, I haven't found a facility either. I reduced the avatar bar with 2 days remaining on campaign fail.

It shouldn't be this much RNG in winning a campaign. The purpose of RNG is to create diversity and force player to adopt alternative strategies - depending on what you roll. Unfortunately, as far as facility leads go, there is no alternative to counter a bad roll (e.g. no finding them).
I did farm intel a lot, both from skullmining and from doing lots of intel missions. Was sending Alahu akbar rookies on neutralize VIP missions whenever they popped up, etc. Rushed main missions too. This crazy, (hopeless, in my case) rush against avatar project sure kills a lot of enjoyment from the game, tbh.
LordYanaek
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Re: Why can't I find a facility lead?

Post by LordYanaek »

Hellraptor & WanWhiteWolf, are you actively trying to "hunt" for Protect Research activities or just hoping that you'll get one among your "Intel package" missions?
By hunting Protect Research activities, i mean :
  • Knowing which regions hold a (hidden) facility. You can learn which regions have a hidden facility from the pop-up that shows when they add a point to the doom counter.
  • Go full Intel in those regions (including Avenger Scan and possibly a Scientist advisor).
  • Attempt every Hack, Item Recovery or Rescue Scientist that shows in those regions with a low infiltration timer. VIP missions can be tricky but Hack can usually be done with a small stealth squad.
If you just select "Intel package" missions when they have a good infiltration timer it's perfectly normal and have little to do with bad luck that you don't find any facility lead because those missions have such low detection chance that you'll almost never detect them with more than a few days left. The detection however, is better in regions with a facility which is why it's important to scan those and attempt every "bad" hack mission in those regions.
I also struggled to find those until i knew what to look for but this campaign i've been much better at finding Leads and UFOs because i got better at guessing when they showed (UFOs are no guess at all actually).

Also, there is another option to reduce AVATAR : Liberation. Taking an HQ removes one point from the fortress in addition to being useful to your economy.
Hellraptor
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Re: Why can't I find a facility lead?

Post by Hellraptor »

LordYanaek wrote:Hellraptor & WanWhiteWolf, are you actively trying to "hunt" for Protect Research activities or just hoping that you'll get one among your "Intel package" missions?
By hunting Protect Research activities, i mean :
  • Knowing which regions hold a (hidden) facility. You can learn which regions have a hidden facility from the pop-up that shows when they add a point to the doom counter.
  • Go full Intel in those regions (including Avenger Scan and possibly a Scientist advisor).
  • Attempt every Hack, Item Recovery or Rescue Scientist that shows in those regions with a low infiltration timer. VIP missions can be tricky but Hack can usually be done with a small stealth squad.
If you just select "Intel package" missions when they have a good infiltration timer it's perfectly normal and have little to do with bad luck that you don't find any facility lead because those missions have such low detection chance that you'll almost never detect them with more than a few days left. The detection however, is better in regions with a facility which is why it's important to scan those and attempt every "bad" hack mission in those regions.
I also struggled to find those until i knew what to look for but this campaign i've been much better at finding Leads and UFOs because i got better at guessing when they showed (UFOs are no guess at all actually).

Also, there is another option to reduce AVATAR : Liberation. Taking an HQ removes one point from the fortress in addition to being useful to your economy.
But how can you do low inflitration timer missions on commander lol? Fighting through swarming enemies to get to that 8 turn item with a 10 turn evac requires at the very least your top team and a lot of luck. That's absolutely not something you can do consistently with everything else going on. If I "attempt" every such mission, all I get is a mass funeral for my soldiers. Regions which have an alien facility also usually have a crazy strong ADVENT presence, meaning almost every mission there gonna be very hard.
LordYanaek
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Re: Why can't I find a facility lead?

Post by LordYanaek »

VIP missions can be hard. That one requires luck to get one in a region that doesn't have a high Str and a reasonable infiltration, something around 4 days is possible with some luck and can be infiltrated by a good squad (an officer, even without infiltrator will reduce the infiltration time through "Esprit de Corps" if you keep a (mostly) stable squad) and intel boost. IIRC i managed to complete one such mission.

Most of my leads came from hack/item recovery missions handled by a dedicated stealth squad that didn't even attempt to fight any enemy (hacking solo drones was common). That squad was 1 Shinobi Officer + 1 Specialist with Emergency Life Support PCS (actually 2 but only one at a time). That PCS is key to the success because about half missions my specialist was "killed" by aliens before he could evac, but then the shinobi just waited for the evac while being concealed, grabbed his comrade and GTFO. 6 turns of bleed-out was enough for me each time. The same squad also allowed me to complete pre-UFO missions (those also typically have a low timer). I didn't bother sending them on missions i didn't expect were facility leads or UFOs and yes i guessed wrong a number of times and ended up with a wounded specialist for a crappy POI (late game rookies are just useless). I also had a couple borked missions where i had to GTFO (including one where my specialist was shot down for nothing) but i also managed to get 4 leads and a lot of UFOs in that campaign. This was a very small squad assembled with late-game rookies and not one of my good squads (i didn't have one best squad BTW but several as i don't like having an A-team whose loss - even temporary - could be the end of the campaign).

BTW, i'm playing commander and i'm not trying to brag about my accomplishment but just point out that (at least up to commander) it's entirely possible to attempt a number of "bad" missions that could hide a facility lead without sacrificing much of your barracks power. The idea of the Emergency Life Support PCS isn't even mine BTW, i'm not that smart, it was either Joinrbs or xwynns who showed it and i'm smart enough to copy a good idea ;)
stefan3iii
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Re: Why can't I find a facility lead?

Post by stefan3iii »

Hellraptor wrote: But how can you do low inflitration timer missions on commander lol? Fighting through swarming enemies to get to that 8 turn item with a 10 turn evac requires at the very least your top team and a lot of luck. That's absolutely not something you can do consistently with everything else going on. If I "attempt" every such mission, all I get is a mass funeral for my soldiers. Regions which have an alien facility also usually have a crazy strong ADVENT presence, meaning almost every mission there gonna be very hard.
Hack Workstation missions are easy to do with a single rookie that just runs in and suicides. Just have to hit the workstation hack button, don't need to evac.
Hellraptor
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Re: Why can't I find a facility lead?

Post by Hellraptor »

stefan3iii wrote:
Hellraptor wrote: But how can you do low inflitration timer missions on commander lol? Fighting through swarming enemies to get to that 8 turn item with a 10 turn evac requires at the very least your top team and a lot of luck. That's absolutely not something you can do consistently with everything else going on. If I "attempt" every such mission, all I get is a mass funeral for my soldiers. Regions which have an alien facility also usually have a crazy strong ADVENT presence, meaning almost every mission there gonna be very hard.
Hack Workstation missions are easy to do with a single rookie that just runs in and suicides. Just have to hit the workstation hack button, don't need to evac.
LOL really? And after he dies mission will still count as a success?
Hellraptor
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Re: Why can't I find a facility lead?

Post by Hellraptor »

LordYanaek wrote:VIP missions can be hard. That one requires luck to get one in a region that doesn't have a high Str and a reasonable infiltration, something around 4 days is possible with
I did most 4 day+ missions. Most of the time I was offered 24 hour missions, to which I referred to. Not a single lead in 3 playthroughs.
stefan3iii
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Re: Why can't I find a facility lead?

Post by stefan3iii »

Hellraptor wrote:
stefan3iii wrote:
Hellraptor wrote: But how can you do low inflitration timer missions on commander lol? Fighting through swarming enemies to get to that 8 turn item with a 10 turn evac requires at the very least your top team and a lot of luck. That's absolutely not something you can do consistently with everything else going on. If I "attempt" every such mission, all I get is a mass funeral for my soldiers. Regions which have an alien facility also usually have a crazy strong ADVENT presence, meaning almost every mission there gonna be very hard.
Hack Workstation missions are easy to do with a single rookie that just runs in and suicides. Just have to hit the workstation hack button, don't need to evac.
LOL really? And after he dies mission will still count as a success?
Yup. VIP assassination are also similarly easy to do using a squaddie ranger with both barrels.
LordYanaek
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Re: Why can't I find a facility lead?

Post by LordYanaek »

Hellraptor wrote: I did most 4 day+ missions. Most of the time I was offered 24 hour missions, to which I referred to. Not a single lead in 3 playthroughs.
4 days is the maximum you can hope for a protect research activity (apart from being very lucky). It's possible but usually you'll get less. That being said 2-3 days isn't unusual in regions that house a facility and while it's too short for the VIP variation, the Hack/Item Recovery one is possible. 24h is too short apart from possibly a pure suicide missions (which i don't attempt) i didn't bother with those. It's really important that you scan regions that contain a facility as it improves your detection chances significantly.

I don't want to sound rude but if you didn't get a single lead in 3 different playthroughs, it's more than just bad luck so you can keep dismissing our advices and blame the RNG or you can try to learn from those advices like we did before you (i don't know about other players, but i also struggled with leads until someone gave me some pointers)
stefan3iii wrote:
Hellraptor wrote: LOL really? And after he dies mission will still count as a success?
Yup. VIP assassination are also similarly easy to do using a squaddie ranger with both barrels.
Just a word of warning, i'm sure stefan3iii knows the difference but in case you don't : there's 2 very similar missions : Hack and Item Recovery. Both have an 8 turn timer to get to an objective and "hack" it however a real hack will have you hack a computer while an item recovery have you "hack" a chest similar to those you see in Smash and Grab missions to disable the "self destruct".
A hack can be completed with a suicide rookie/squadie but an item recovery requires you to actually evac the recovered item so you can't purely run them as suicide missions. The "almost suicide" approach with an Emergency Life Support PCS woks for both but you can still recover the item with another soldier (a concealed Shinobi obviously) after going "true suicide" with a rookie, it's a little more tricky.
The pre-mission screen clearly tells you which mission is a hack and which one an item recovery so no need to guess.

VIP assassination is probably even easier with a suicide squaddie shinobi or assault (dash+attack) but it's much more fun with a stealth kill from a sniper and at least your guys do get to use the experience. I just don't like suicide missions.
Psieye
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Re: Why can't I find a facility lead?

Post by Psieye »

Hellraptor wrote:But how can you do low inflitration timer missions on commander lol? Fighting through swarming enemies to get to that 8 turn item with a 10 turn evac requires at the very least your top team and a lot of luck. That's absolutely not something you can do consistently with everything else going on. If I "attempt" every such mission, all I get is a mass funeral for my soldiers. Regions which have an alien facility also usually have a crazy strong ADVENT presence, meaning almost every mission there gonna be very hard.
My AAR thread for my Commander campaign seeks to challenge this attitude precisely. I've done 8-man GOps very well at Veteran, I want to see if it's also possible at Commander. Note it does require the whole barracks to be built with an 8-man GOp midgame in mind.

One thing that I can say immediately: officer intervention to extend the timer. Sure you'll be burning through intel but when finding facility leads are top priority, you'll pay up.
My three 8-man GOp squad Commander campaigns:
1st
2nd
3rd
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