Filling out the Barracks in v1.4

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Jacke
Posts: 623
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:10 am

Filling out the Barracks in v1.4

Post by Jacke »

Looking for advice on how to fill out my barracks, both to get the bodies, what soldier classes to make, how many in what builds, and how to pay for it all.

It's 2035 April 8 in my LW2 Legendary campaign, about 5 weeks in. My barracks has 23 soldiers and I just put the last Rookie in the GTS to train as a Technical. 3 more Rookies are currently infiltrating on missions. Only got 2 Rookies so far from Jailbreaks and I've got no one in the Recruit pool.

I've just contacted my 3rd region. I've run 9 missions. I've 2 Scientists (Black Market purchases) and I've run Basic Research once. I have 2 Engineers (from VIP missions) cleaning out the Avenger. Only the GTS so far, but Research has just done the ADVENT Trooper Autopsy and I'm looking forward to getting supplies for the AWC and Proving Grounds, then the Workshop and the Laboratory.

I have some income from Smash&Grabs. Is that, Avenger excavation, and selling excess to the Black Market (I have the mod Blackmarket Usage) going to be enough or should I shift more than 1 Rebel to Supplies?

Mostly I've had the Rebels run Intel. Should I shift more Rebels to Recruit to get more Rebels as well as Soldiers on top of what's possible from VIP and Jailbreak missions and the Black Market?

A few more detials for context. I use the mod Commander's Choice and the GTS to control what soldier class every Rookie becomes. Right now it's like this.
Spoiler: show

Code: Select all

        Specialist        4     2Lt/Sgt 2Lt/Cpl LCpl/2Lt Sq
        Ranger            1     LCpl
        Technical         5     3xCpl LCpl Sq
        Assault           3     Sgt Cpl Sq
        Sharpshooter      1     Cpl
        Gunner            0     
        Shinobi           3     2xSgt Cpl
        Grenadier         2     Sgt Sq
        Psi               0
        Rookie            4     1x/Tech 3xInfiltrating

        Total            23
I plan to use Specialists as Officers with a mixed hacker/medical build (Revival Protocol, Field Surgeon, then the Hacker right side skills). I plan to mostly use Technicals as Haven Advisors. All of the soldiers are on the same build. Right now I don't feel I have the numbers to specialize into say Overwatch builds, as I'm having to substitute when soldiers are wounded or training.

Just made a few AP Rounds to better take out drones and the yet-to-be-seen MECs as well as a few Nanofiber Vests. Have 47 Alien Alloys and 0 Elerium Crystals. So rendering an Elerium Core, then Laser Weapons, then if needs be render another Elerium Core before Advanced Laser Weapons.
Dwarfling
Posts: 524
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:16 pm

Re: Filling out the Barracks in v1.4

Post by Dwarfling »

Been playing Legendary for months now, here's some input:

- Endgame success depends, at least for me, heavily on the Crit Rangers, the shotgun Assaults and the DFA Sharpshooters (better with Kubikiri) with a special mention for the Shredder-Chain Shot Gunners, if you get them with high enough aim. There's going to be a lot of health and armor to chew thru, and those are the best for the job. They may suck early game (except Assaults), but you got the Grenadiers and Technicals to carry you while you give the rest levels and equipment. I would start now recruiting those Rangers. You need min 2, best 3, so you can infiltrate Golden Path and still have one for a GOps.

- Those medic hybrid Specialists you mention... I think it's gonna suck. Combat Protocol and Sentinel are too good not to pick. If you want some healing options maybe grab Medical Protocol and Field Medic on your Overwatch Specialists. I still prefer Trojan tbh, but if you insist on getting medics. I went whole campaigns without them just fine, I carried Nanomedikits on the Gunners, Shinobis, Rangers and even the Sharpshooters. My Specialists go either full Hacker or Overwatcher with Trojan and Override.

- As far as the Recruit job goes, that's what I do after I got my whole barracks busy. Before Liberation starts spawning tho, I go Recruit when I got the 2 GOps revealed. Getting +10 rebels is key to finding doable Supply Raids and UFO missions. Or I hide if I can't handle a retal at the moment. Or a couple days of full Supply if the Haven is kinda full (helps knowing if you got faceless).

- Technicals will carry you thru the early game and most of the mid game. Why you'd stick them as advisors is beyond me. I normally stick in there the Sharpshooters and Gunners I'm not currently using. Always temporarily tho.

Also I think you might not be running as many missions as you could. Are you doing too many 6-man? Or too much training? You could use more scientists in the near future, maybe delay the buildings.
Jacke
Posts: 623
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:10 am

Re: Filling out the Barracks in v1.4

Post by Jacke »

Dwarfling wrote:Been playing Legendary for months now, here's some input:
Thanks for the quick feedback, Dwarfling. Hoping to hear from more!

BTW, I also started a thread on Soldier Classes Builds here. Kind of overlap between them. And thanks for helping me with them already, Dwarfling. And I see you've commented over there too.... :)
Dwarfling wrote:- Endgame success depends, at least for me, heavily on the Crit Rangers, the shotgun Assaults and the DFA Sharpshooters (better with Kubikiri) with a special mention for the Shredder-Chain Shot Gunners, if you get them with high enough aim.
Completely agree with you here. That advice on Shredder-Chain Shot Gunners had me change my Gunner build.
Dwarfling wrote: - Those medic hybrid Specialists you mention... I think it's gonna suck. Combat Protocol and Sentinel are too good not to pick. If you want some healing options maybe grab Medical Protocol and Field Medic on your Overwatch Specialists. I still prefer Trojan tbh, but if you insist on getting medics. I went whole campaigns without them just fine, I carried Nanomedikits on the Gunners, Shinobis, Rangers and even the Sharpshooters. My Specialists go either full Hacker or Overwatcher with Trojan and Override.
I think Field Surgeon is vital to reduce time healing, so I'd still go with it on Specialist Officers (so always having one per squad on most missions). I'd picked Revival Protocol to get soldiers back into the fight, especially after being knocked unconscious, which normally has them out of action for the rest of the mission and needing to be carried out on evac.

But you're saying Combat Protocol is more important and the lack of Revival Protocol can be managed by mostly avoiding the conditions or other means (killing the mind-controlling alien etc.). Hmmm.
Dwarfling wrote:- As far as the Recruit job goes, that's what I do after I got my whole barracks busy....
Thanks for that info. Jives with other things I've heard.
Dwarfling wrote: - Technicals will carry you thru the early game and most of the mid game. Why you'd stick them as advisors is beyond me. I normally stick in there the Sharpshooters and Gunners I'm not currently using. Always temporarily tho.
Oh, I'm using Technicals in the fighting squads too. I use the gameplay mod More Technical Rockets and they have their own Micro Missile Package from the start with 2 shots each (and drops mobility 2 as well). Usually carry 1 but sometimes 2. Makes them very strong and with later missiles likely will stay useful.

I do stick other soldiers in as Haven Advisors and I will pull them to handle missions. I like Technicals for the jobs as they are a well rounded class and likely be able to deal with Rendezvous missions throughout the campaign.

I've gone with Roust for all my Technicals so far. I am thinking of switching to Suppression as Roust is just one shot, but Suppression can be used every turn. And shutting down an enemy's special functions would be helpful, especially for a Technical with only Rebels on a Rendezvous.
Dwarfling wrote: Also I think you might not be running as many missions as you could. Are you doing too many 6-man? Or too much training? You could use more scientists in the near future, maybe delay the buildings.
After Gatecrasher, I've had 8 more missions in about 5 weeks. Looking at my game log, I had 2 possible GOps that I had time to run but declined. They both came up in the last week of March. I had 14 soldiers out on 3 GOps at the time and 3 in the GTS, which means I had 6 more soldiers in the barracks or out as Advisor to the 2 regions I have. I have been running larger missions to train up Rookies prior to getting the GTS.

Thinking things over, I should have planned out the barracks ahead of time to be able to take those 2 declined missions. I do need to be more flexible in my mission squad taskings and aim for that sweet spot of 5 per mission. I'd feel better with 1 or 2 more Shinobi as I do like having 1 of them per mission.
merkmerk
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:29 pm

Re: Filling out the Barracks in v1.4

Post by merkmerk »

Revival protocol is really good

But combat protocol is just too good.

One shotting drones and finishing off 2 health vipers/sectoids/whatever...just too good.

I almost wonder if combat protocol should be the default skill for all specialists, and haywire the choice (so you're choosing between hacking or medic - would make medic MUCH more useful overall since you'd still have some guaranteed damage)
orion_winterfire
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: Filling out the Barracks in v1.4

Post by orion_winterfire »

merkmerk wrote:Revival protocol is really good

But combat protocol is just too good.
I've heard more than one person say this, but at the same time, my experience is that (using all 3 options in different squads) I say "$#!+ I wish I had revival" 2x as often as I say that re: combat protocol.

But I haven't finished a campaign yet.
Exquisitor
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 4:50 pm

Re: Filling out the Barracks in v1.4

Post by Exquisitor »

I've been enjoying sentinel on my specialists. It's great in the early game. I can see why Combat Protocol is useful, but I'm getting lots of kills with sentinel.
Thrombozyt
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:37 am

Re: Filling out the Barracks in v1.4

Post by Thrombozyt »

Combat Protocol is superior to Revival early game is the vast majority of situations. The most common problem early is the endless stun drones can inflict. You have the choice to either take the stun and cleanse with Revival or to simply pop the drone with combat protocol. Seeing as the latter option also gets rid of the drone entirely, it's the preferable choice.

Revival protocol only shines in those moments where a soldier gets hit on the way to the evac and panics. Starting the mid-game, revival protocol can be entirely replaced (coming 1.5) with Solace so it becomes an even worse pick.
merkmerk
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:29 pm

Re: Filling out the Barracks in v1.4

Post by merkmerk »

Thrombozyt wrote:Combat Protocol is superior to Revival early game is the vast majority of situations. The most common problem early is the endless stun drones can inflict. You have the choice to either take the stun and cleanse with Revival or to simply pop the drone with combat protocol. Seeing as the latter option also gets rid of the drone entirely, it's the preferable choice.

Revival protocol only shines in those moments where a soldier gets hit on the way to the evac and panics. Starting the mid-game, revival protocol can be entirely replaced (coming 1.5) with Solace so it becomes an even worse pick.
Revival is great for some serious "oh shit situations"

But combat protocol can just outright prevent some of those "oh shit situations" by finishing some 2 health (and later 4 health) baddie - through armor.

It's just insanely good. I think it makes a better candidate for base level specialist perk than haywire.

You could you make the argument that it would make squaddie specialists too strong, but squaddie shinobi/assaults/technicals are really strong already too.

Of course it would probably shift away anyone from picking haywire early since they'd have combat protocol and why shut something down or take a shitty chance at hacking vs sentinel / revival, but then again a good hacking specialist can control drones as easy tanks so it still has value

Right now there's just a no brainer choice on combat protocol though
Skyro
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:13 pm

Re: Filling out the Barracks in v1.4

Post by Skyro »

Thrombozyt wrote:Combat Protocol is superior to Revival early game is the vast majority of situations. The most common problem early is the endless stun drones can inflict. You have the choice to either take the stun and cleanse with Revival or to simply pop the drone with combat protocol. Seeing as the latter option also gets rid of the drone entirely, it's the preferable choice.

Revival protocol only shines in those moments where a soldier gets hit on the way to the evac and panics. Starting the mid-game, revival protocol can be entirely replaced (coming 1.5) with Solace so it becomes an even worse pick.
Revival protocol is very useful in drawn out firefights like HQs and supply raids however due to being able to revive and heal (if medic spec) soldiers bleeding out. But IMO that is really its only niche and gOps CP or Sent (if you roll high aim) is the way to go.
Thrombozyt
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:37 am

Re: Filling out the Barracks in v1.4

Post by Thrombozyt »

Skyro wrote:
Thrombozyt wrote:Combat Protocol is superior to Revival early game is the vast majority of situations. The most common problem early is the endless stun drones can inflict. You have the choice to either take the stun and cleanse with Revival or to simply pop the drone with combat protocol. Seeing as the latter option also gets rid of the drone entirely, it's the preferable choice.

Revival protocol only shines in those moments where a soldier gets hit on the way to the evac and panics. Starting the mid-game, revival protocol can be entirely replaced (coming 1.5) with Solace so it becomes an even worse pick.
Revival protocol is very useful in drawn out firefights like HQs and supply raids however due to being able to revive and heal (if medic spec) soldiers bleeding out. But IMO that is really its only niche and gOps CP or Sent (if you roll high aim) is the way to go.
I used to think that too, specced a med-specialist and never used him. On long fight missions without evac, you don't need revival because you just stabilize and let the guy lie there. Being down hurts much more in GOPs, because you lose a second guy who is carrying the unconscious. That's when you need it, but that's also where combat protocol and full hacker shine the most.
Skyro
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:13 pm

Re: Filling out the Barracks in v1.4

Post by Skyro »

Thrombozyt wrote:
Skyro wrote:
Thrombozyt wrote:Combat Protocol is superior to Revival early game is the vast majority of situations. The most common problem early is the endless stun drones can inflict. You have the choice to either take the stun and cleanse with Revival or to simply pop the drone with combat protocol. Seeing as the latter option also gets rid of the drone entirely, it's the preferable choice.

Revival protocol only shines in those moments where a soldier gets hit on the way to the evac and panics. Starting the mid-game, revival protocol can be entirely replaced (coming 1.5) with Solace so it becomes an even worse pick.
Revival protocol is very useful in drawn out firefights like HQs and supply raids however due to being able to revive and heal (if medic spec) soldiers bleeding out. But IMO that is really its only niche and gOps CP or Sent (if you roll high aim) is the way to go.
I used to think that too, specced a med-specialist and never used him. On long fight missions without evac, you don't need revival because you just stabilize and let the guy lie there. Being down hurts much more in GOPs, because you lose a second guy who is carrying the unconscious. That's when you need it, but that's also where combat protocol and full hacker shine the most.
I agree CP/hack specs are much better in small squads, basically because it is optimal to have a squad capable to alpha strike their way through GOps (at least until M3's start showing up) and not take any wounds at all, and bringing a medic just means you are down one alpha striker in your squad. But I think you undervalue them in large scale fights where you are much more likely to take wounds, and losing one soldier can have a snowball effect which leads you to not be able to complete the mission (aka clear the map). I also play with red fog as well so it does increase the value of medic specs to some degree. But no matter how you slice I do agree with the general premise that medic specs are at best, very niche and probably in need of further balancing.
Jacke
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Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:10 am

Re: Filling out the Barracks in v1.4

Post by Jacke »

In my 1.4 Legendary campaign, besides Specialist Officers, a squad might have a Specialist Reaction/Medic.

Specialist Officer
Combat Protocol - Field Surgeon - Trojan - Airdrop - Failsafe - Full Override - Capacitor Discharge

Specialist React/Medic
Sentinel - Field Surgeon - Medical Protocol / Trojan - Field Medic / Airdrop - Cool Under Pressure / Savior - Full Override - Restoration / Killzone

Apparently, Field Surgeon stacks. If the add-on is significant, that could really help reduce days wounded. Otherwise a mix of OW and medic perks. Goes for the double shots from Sentinel but can also heal soldiers.
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