LW2 1.4 Team Builds

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Jacke
Posts: 623
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:10 am

LW2 1.4 Team Builds

Post by Jacke »

As 1.5 is likely more than a month away, I decided to start a 1.4 campaign to get caught up on all the changes so far before there's more. Aware of some of the changes, but I'm wanting to understand more about the better builds especial as a campaign progresses. How the perks are. What synergies between perks and with other soldiers. Special builds like for pistol and tanking.

But rather than focus on just one soldier class, I'd like to focus on what teams with which classes and builds you're sending out on various missions.
stefan3iii
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:49 am

Re: LW2 1.4 Team Builds

Post by stefan3iii »

For 4-6 man teams, the core is a Shinobi Officer + Incendiary Support Grenadier. I always build them the same way:

Shinobi: Blademaster, Combatives, Covert, Shadowstrike, Reaper, Hit and Run, Rapid Fire (though considering Conceal instead). Basically, the shinobi is for scouting, using Command while stealthed to be useful and maintain stealth. When needed, the shinobi goes into beast mode, with reaper + hit and run, allowing him to do a crazy amount of damage in a single turn. Shadowstrike works with shredder guns, fleche, or hunter's axe, all very useful, and the perks it competes with are bad anyway. Covert is actually quite good, reduces a lot of "whoopsies" activations, which is often how things go really bad in a mission.

Grenadier: Rapid Deployment, Heavy Ordinance, Bluescreen, Whatever, Sting, Salvo, Fullkit. Usually they'd be loaded out with 2 flashbangs and 2 incendiaries. I've started taking salvo over volatile, I think it's more useful to fire 2 smaller radius incendiaries when needed, then 1 slightly bigger one. Also lets you use shredder guns as your first action too. Grenadiers are the kings of CC, they make every mission safer by allowing you to shutdown several enemies for a turn when needed, letting you finish them the next turn.

After that, I fill the rest of the team out with damage, ideally at least a couple of classes that are good at shooting.

For missions without timers I again bring the grenadier + shinobi, and then 2-3 DFA sharpshooters. I also like having a SPARK to tank yellow alert shots though not necessary.
Psieye
Posts: 829
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:27 am

Re: LW2 1.4 Team Builds

Post by Psieye »

In the earlygame, you bring lots of flashbangs to safely interrupt Sectoids, Vipers, overwatch, etc. It's a magical time where what class/build your soldiers are is nearly irrelevant compared to "do they have frag/flashbang?"

At midgame you actually have the tech and soldier EXP to contemplate squad compositions. In my current campaign, I lean hard towards snapshot snipers and tank shinobis - see my thread on this unorthodox 8-man GOp approach (that may not be viable on higher difficulties).

Even in 5-man GOps (I still do these), I strongly prefer bringing a tank shinobi (with Hazmat and Mindshield), a snapshot sniper and a specialist. Anything actually dangerous (read: can ignore or blow up cover) should be killed by the sniper. Everything else that interacts with Aim vs Defence can be controlled by stacking def buffs: High Cover (45) + Tier 2 Aid Protocol (25) + Smoke (20, +10 if dense) = Advent don't even try to shoot. Substitutions are possible, e.g. flashbang instead of smoke is the same -20 Aim. Fortify works for when you need to tank consecutively and Aid Protocol is on cooldown. Hunker (30) + High Cover (45) alone might be all you need depending on what you face. If the aliens are attempting to shoot at all (even with 1% hit chance), your tank isn't good enough or you've let a non-tank be seen.

So what does everyone else do if only the tank should be seen? OW wall to pick off the attempts to flank the tank. You can't spend several turns tanking, but "must kill everything in 1 turn" isn't strictly true.
My three 8-man GOp squad Commander campaigns:
1st
2nd
3rd
Exquisitor
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 4:50 pm

Re: LW2 1.4 Team Builds

Post by Exquisitor »

DfA sharpshooter, crit build ranger, support grenadier, whatever else is needed by the mission (usually assault, specialist or shinobi). The DfA sharpshooter becomes more of a liability on higher difficulty settings due to their lack of mobility, but don't discount their ability to kill stuff.
Dwarfling
Posts: 524
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:16 pm

Re: LW2 1.4 Team Builds

Post by Dwarfling »

This is how I usually gear up a Guerrilla Ops mission:

- Mission objective soldier: Is it a Hack? Bring any available Specialist. Is it a Relay? Chain-Shot Gunner or SPARK. Revealed? Shinobi.

- Then I think about AoE, be it a Technical to open with when I start with concealment, or a Grenadier otherwise, preferably both.

- Next I need a way to kill a big-bad-fat-dude (Muton, etc). Either an Assault (I prefer Close Encounters), or a Sawn-Off Ranger.

- Since MECs get common at some point, I try to always bring a Crit Ranger, but Chain-Shot Gunners and OW Rangers work too.

- Last I just pack whatever I have available while staying over 100% infiltration. DFA Sharpshooter, Shinobi, SPARK, etc.

I haven't bothered with squads in a long time. Everyone ends up mixed up anyways because of wounds and tube times.
LordYanaek
Posts: 940
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:34 pm

Re: LW2 1.4 Team Builds

Post by LordYanaek »

I like to play with fixed squads and i like to have different squads. I also made most of my officers from quick learning soldiers so i have a number of unusual builds that i tend to like. My squads have been assembled from what was available when i built them but are still somewhat to highly specialized and won't just be deployed on any mission. Here are my squads pretty late in my commander campaign.
  • Screaming Eagles (random name but i like it).
    Grenadier officer who does a bit of CC and direct damage (and can still command thanks to Salvo)
    OW-medic hybrid specialist (not my best soldier but i was testing stuff)
    Rifle-flanking Shinobi capable of doing a lot of damage and tanking in low cover with Low Profile
    Snapshot sniper
    Burst damage Assault (Trench gun-Killer Instinct-Street Sweeper) capable of doing huge damage every couple turns
    Rocketeer technical

    Basically it's an all purpose squad that goes on a variety of GOps (specialist for hack, shin+sniper for assassination and relays, brute strength for extraction, Smash and Grab) they might even take an odd low strength Troop Ambush but now in the late game they tend to come back with wounded soldiers as tough enemies are more common and they can no longer alpha strike most of the pods they encounter. They have been pretty useful until now thought.
  • Twilight Stalkers (their first mission was operation something night and on a dark map - they killed everyone without taking a single wound and earned their name :lol: )
    Stunner and rifle assault officer. Another unusual choice but can be quite useful.
    3 DFA snipers with various skills.
    Suppression, OWing (with Rapid Reaction), tanking lone-wolf gunner who's usually the only member visible.
    Spotter shinobi
    OW specialist who stays close to the snipers to protect them, put an Aid Protocol on the gunner if need be and hack some MECs
    + whoever i wanted to train with Trial by fire or now whoever can help

    This one is heavily specialized for ambushes and HQs and does the job very well. If enemies come too close the assault officer would stun them (now kill some and then stun thanks to hit and run) but usually the gunner keeps them busy. In the late game i need to bring the assault officer closer to the gunner most of the time and pull some chain lightnings but she not there to stay in the back all the time.
  • Thunderstorm
    Flamer tank officer (with Quick Learning and Phantom).
    Burst damage assault
    Hybrid ranger (also with Quick Learning and Phantom) who can dash into OW or shoot and possibly scout
    Rifle based shinobi
    OW-hacker specialist

    Another multipurpose squad. A lot of Phantom soldiers here which gives me a lot of flexibility to reveal the most efficient soldier. They will take a variety of GOps but mostly hacks and escort-liberation. They don't take on assassinations or relays due to a lack of Sniper. They can do a lot of damage when they need to fight but don't try to fight if they don't have to as they never go on corpse recover missions.
  • Vega (another random name but i had no idea when i assembled the squad and then got used to the name :roll: )
    Rifle based shinobi officer
    Phantom snapshotter
    Hacker Specialist
    Blademaster shinobi
    Flamer technical (was added recently, the squad started as a 4 guys squad)

    This one have been a very useful, mostly stealth squad doing some low timer GOps for some time and training soldiers (Trial by Fire) when they could fit them. A lot of Phantom soldiers again so i could usually kill some enemies with a good flanking shot and still have scouts. The hacker proved very useful to reduce the enemy count and add some "friends" at the same time, which i found critical to many of their missions. With some added soldiers they were also pretty successful on Smash and Grab since they can usually advance steadily.
  • Twin Shadows
    Pure stealth Shinobi officer
    2 Specialists

    This one is a 3 guys squad but only 2 are deployed at a time. The specialists alternate missions and AWC resting time after they are "killed" by some enemies doing pure stealth missions. Sometimes they can even come back without being shot but if they are, Emergency Life Support PCS comes in handy :twisted:
  • Valkyries (you probably guessed the gender of those "guys" :mrgreen: )
    Point Blank ranger officer who's now usually using a shotgun.
    "Point Blank" killer assault
    Blademaster Shinobi
    An odd Rocketeer
    My first Psi Trooper (squad started as 4 "men")

    Actually a fast moving (despite the odd Rocketeer who doesn't really fit the squad that much) and very hard hitting (thus the Rocketeer but that wasn't a smart choice) squad that takes missions where i need to move forward while killing stuff (extractions, Smash and Grab and Network Towers). Both the Assault and Ranger have insane speed thanks to high base mobility and PCS.
  • Black Omega (I wonder who will catch the reference ;) )
    Psi Operative officer (hint : he's responsible for the squad name)
    2 DFA snipers
    1 Snapshot sniper
    1 Scout shinobi
    1 OW ranger
    1 Supression gunner
    1 OW-medic specialist

    A squad i assembled later to take Troop Columns while the Stalkers were busy doing HQs. They still have some lower level soldier and are not as efficient but they are catching up. I try to kill stuff with the snipers but if some enemies come close i have a bunch of tricks to meet them (suppression, covering fire OW, Mind Tricks).
I have 2 Sparks i add to difficult missions when i can afford them. I have some spare psi officers who can take command when the real officer is out (and are rooting out faceless the rest of the time) and a few assaults and rangers and a technical who can help if someone is wounded.

So where are all the grenadiers?
Well, i forgot a bunch on haven duty (where they are actually pretty good!) and lost a few, didn't got many as random promotions either so i'm doing without them :lol:
Psieye
Posts: 829
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:27 am

Re: LW2 1.4 Team Builds

Post by Psieye »

LordYanaek wrote: So where are all the grenadiers?
Well, i forgot a bunch on haven duty (where they are actually pretty good!) and lost a few, didn't got many as random promotions either so i'm doing without them :lol:
Now there's an idea - needle grenadiers who carry the earlygame and then retire into haven duty when there isn't a corpse mission (or a spare EXO suit).
My three 8-man GOp squad Commander campaigns:
1st
2nd
3rd
Razor
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: LW2 1.4 Team Builds

Post by Razor »

LordYanaek wrote:I like to play with fixed squads and i like to have different squads. I also made most of my officers from quick learning soldiers so i have a number of unusual builds that i tend to like. My squads have been assembled from what was available when i built them but are still somewhat to highly specialized and won't just be deployed on any mission. Here are my squads pretty late in my commander campaign.
  • Screaming Eagles (random name but i like it).
    Grenadier officer who does a bit of CC and direct damage (and can still command thanks to Salvo)
    OW-medic hybrid specialist (not my best soldier but i was testing stuff)
    Rifle-flanking Shinobi capable of doing a lot of damage and tanking in low cover with Low Profile
    Snapshot sniper
    Burst damage Assault (Trench gun-Killer Instinct-Street Sweeper) capable of doing huge damage every couple turns
    Rocketeer technical

    Basically it's an all purpose squad that goes on a variety of GOps (specialist for hack, shin+sniper for assassination and relays, brute strength for extraction, Smash and Grab) they might even take an odd low strength Troop Ambush but now in the late game they tend to come back with wounded soldiers as tough enemies are more common and they can no longer alpha strike most of the pods they encounter. They have been pretty useful until now thought.
  • Twilight Stalkers (their first mission was operation something night and on a dark map - they killed everyone without taking a single wound and earned their name :lol: )
    Stunner and rifle assault officer. Another unusual choice but can be quite useful.
    3 DFA snipers with various skills.
    Suppression, OWing (with Rapid Reaction), tanking lone-wolf gunner who's usually the only member visible.
    Spotter shinobi
    OW specialist who stays close to the snipers to protect them, put an Aid Protocol on the gunner if need be and hack some MECs
    + whoever i wanted to train with Trial by fire or now whoever can help

    This one is heavily specialized for ambushes and HQs and does the job very well. If enemies come too close the assault officer would stun them (now kill some and then stun thanks to hit and run) but usually the gunner keeps them busy. In the late game i need to bring the assault officer closer to the gunner most of the time and pull some chain lightnings but she not there to stay in the back all the time.
  • Thunderstorm
    Flamer tank officer (with Quick Learning and Phantom).
    Burst damage assault
    Hybrid ranger (also with Quick Learning and Phantom) who can dash into OW or shoot and possibly scout
    Rifle based shinobi
    OW-hacker specialist

    Another multipurpose squad. A lot of Phantom soldiers here which gives me a lot of flexibility to reveal the most efficient soldier. They will take a variety of GOps but mostly hacks and escort-liberation. They don't take on assassinations or relays due to a lack of Sniper. They can do a lot of damage when they need to fight but don't try to fight if they don't have to as they never go on corpse recover missions.
  • Vega (another random name but i had no idea when i assembled the squad and then got used to the name :roll: )
    Rifle based shinobi officer
    Phantom snapshotter
    Hacker Specialist
    Blademaster shinobi
    Flamer technical (was added recently, the squad started as a 4 guys squad)

    This one have been a very useful, mostly stealth squad doing some low timer GOps for some time and training soldiers (Trial by Fire) when they could fit them. A lot of Phantom soldiers again so i could usually kill some enemies with a good flanking shot and still have scouts. The hacker proved very useful to reduce the enemy count and add some "friends" at the same time, which i found critical to many of their missions. With some added soldiers they were also pretty successful on Smash and Grab since they can usually advance steadily.
  • Twin Shadows
    Pure stealth Shinobi officer
    2 Specialists

    This one is a 3 guys squad but only 2 are deployed at a time. The specialists alternate missions and AWC resting time after they are "killed" by some enemies doing pure stealth missions. Sometimes they can even come back without being shot but if they are, Emergency Life Support PCS comes in handy :twisted:
  • Valkyries (you probably guessed the gender of those "guys" :mrgreen: )
    Point Blank ranger officer who's now usually using a shotgun.
    "Point Blank" killer assault
    Blademaster Shinobi
    An odd Rocketeer
    My first Psi Trooper (squad started as 4 "men")

    Actually a fast moving (despite the odd Rocketeer who doesn't really fit the squad that much) and very hard hitting (thus the Rocketeer but that wasn't a smart choice) squad that takes missions where i need to move forward while killing stuff (extractions, Smash and Grab and Network Towers). Both the Assault and Ranger have insane speed thanks to high base mobility and PCS.
  • Black Omega (I wonder who will catch the reference ;) )
    Psi Operative officer (hint : he's responsible for the squad name)
    2 DFA snipers
    1 Snapshot sniper
    1 Scout shinobi
    1 OW ranger
    1 Supression gunner
    1 OW-medic specialist

    A squad i assembled later to take Troop Columns while the Stalkers were busy doing HQs. They still have some lower level soldier and are not as efficient but they are catching up. I try to kill stuff with the snipers but if some enemies come close i have a bunch of tricks to meet them (suppression, covering fire OW, Mind Tricks).
I have 2 Sparks i add to difficult missions when i can afford them. I have some spare psi officers who can take command when the real officer is out (and are rooting out faceless the rest of the time) and a few assaults and rangers and a technical who can help if someone is wounded.

So where are all the grenadiers?
Well, i forgot a bunch on haven duty (where they are actually pretty good!) and lost a few, didn't got many as random promotions either so i'm doing without them :lol:
What a great post! I enjoyed looking over your list of soldiers in each squad, and it gives me a few ideas. I notice that your squads are primarily around six soldiers, which is something I want to try and do (I have always had eight per squad but then I end up leaving members out of missions and that's a waste). I have a couple of questions - first, how is the rifle wielding shinobi working out? I'm wondered about trying build a shinobi that specializes in "lone wolf" and flanking with a "real" gun. Also, when you say you choose your officers based on who learns fast, what does that mean? Do they learn officer skills at a different pace? How do I know?
Psieye
Posts: 829
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:27 am

Re: LW2 1.4 Team Builds

Post by Psieye »

Quick study is an AWC perk that halves the training time for officer/AWC perks.

SMG dudes who actually want to be killing things need a strong science team to get high weapon tech faster. If you just want a Lone Wolf rifleman, might be easier to look for Lone Wolf in the AWC on some other class.
My three 8-man GOp squad Commander campaigns:
1st
2nd
3rd
LordYanaek
Posts: 940
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:34 pm

Re: LW2 1.4 Team Builds

Post by LordYanaek »

Razor wrote: I notice that your squads are primarily around six soldiers, which is something I want to try and do (I have always had eight per squad but then I end up leaving members out of missions and that's a waste).
Actually i had more 5 soldiers squads than 6. 5 is the base for most GOps and i played most of them with those squads fixed and added another soldier occasionally (especially near the end) when infiltration allowed it. I kept the big 8 soldiers squad (and later both big squads) for combat heavy missions : HQs, troop columns and those unusual supply raids with good infiltration timer. It's much easier to add some guys on the fly.
I have a couple of questions - first, how is the rifle wielding shinobi working out? I'm wondered about trying build a shinobi that specializes in "lone wolf" and flanking with a "real" gun.
They are extremely strong at high level. The key perks are Hunter's Instinct, Hit and Run and Rapid Fire. They deal high damage to flanked targets (thus usually critting them) and can make a normal shot followed by a double one. They might not be stronger than another rifle user (a good Ranger is extremely efficient) but i find them more versatile since they can scout early and give you a second option for a strong alpha strike and unlike a ranger who need to stay in place to shoot twice, they can move. Finally they still have their blade if they can't get a good shot. They are also surprisingly tanky for a stealth class with their high dodge and have an easier time getting good cover. All of this made them very useful to my small GOps squads.
In the early game thought, they mostly use their blade when not scouting as their strength comes from high rank perks but even a basic sword stays relevant for a long time.
They need decent aim thought not exceptionally high (you'll be flanking enemies most of the time). Mobility is very important if you want to equip a "real" gun but even an SMG is efficient with HI.
My build for a rifle shinobi is Lone Wolf→Combatives→Low Profile→Hard Target→Hunter's Instincts→Hit and Run→Rapid Fire. Combatives is a bit odd but it helps make them more tanky (especially when a muton tries to melee them). I tried Executioner but it's too situational for me.
Also, when you say you choose your officers based on who learns fast, what does that mean? Do they learn officer skills at a different pace? How do I know?
As Psieye said, i was referring to the "Quick study" perk but incorrectly called it Quick learning :oops:
Razor
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: LW2 1.4 Team Builds

Post by Razor »

Thanks for the details - just trained up my first LCpl shinobi who will be my hit and run rifler. We'll see how it works out...
Icarus
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:26 pm

Re: LW2 1.4 Team Builds

Post by Icarus »

I had a lot of success with a squad consisting of a shinobi spotter, two sharpshooters and someone to stop enemies trying to get to the shooters. For the last job I picked whoever can CC/overwatch and got lucky with the AWC. For less time-critical missions, slap one or more people as CC/Overwatch buffer on. I would suggest suppression/OW gunner, then OW/aid protocolling specialist, then grenadier.

Pro: Can deal with missions normally too heavy for a squad of that size. This was my goto squad for important missions that didn't have a lot of infitration time left.
Con: Strongly dependant on terrain, if you get into too much fight before the snipers are set up, you're screwed. Also not that great on misions where you have to move a lot, obviously.

Didn't have much need for this squad during my latest playthroughs, so I discontinued it. But before, this was my single most effective squad. Now forms the basis for my HQ assault A team.

Has overlap with the Twilight Stalkers presented below.
hamds28
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:36 pm

Re: LW2 1.4 Team Builds

Post by hamds28 »

My most frequently fielded teams have a shinobi, ranger, and a DFA sharpshooter (turn 1, survey building layout for most efficient nest :D ). After that it's two more. If there's an assault available, they get the fourth slot. Fifth goes to either a specialist (for hack rewards) or a grenadier/gunner. The most cookie cutter assembly possible. Officer training usually went to the specialists, because they had useful, non-turnending actions to do before Command. But I think I might try Shinobi Officers next.
Zork
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:58 pm

Re: LW2 1.4 Team Builds

Post by Zork »

Stick Officers to soldiers having the Quick Study AWC skill is a pretty good option with the huge reduction of training time.
NOT a tactical/strategy expert player, playing LW2 at Easy. Rather old so I appreciate not be bothered by excessive familiarity, I'm not your friend and will never be. Refuse to learn English well so don't attempt learn it to me, thank you. :-)
Amur_Tiger
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:33 pm

Re: LW2 1.4 Team Builds

Post by Amur_Tiger »

LordYanaek wrote: [*]Black Omega (I wonder who will catch the reference ;) )

So where are all the grenadiers?
Well, i forgot a bunch on haven duty (where they are actually pretty good!) and lost a few, didn't got many as random promotions either so i'm doing without them :lol:
Neat stuff overall, I'm still kinda formulating what combinations I like most so this is a lot of food for thought.

Bester would be proud of that squad name though, until he sacrifices the lot of them.

I've sorta come to the same conclusion about grenadiers being good for haven duty. They have low equipment costs since free flash/frag grenades remain viable long into the game and sting grenade perk means it provides the CC your helpless haven people need to deal with a wall of faceless HP heading their way.
LordYanaek
Posts: 940
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:34 pm

Re: LW2 1.4 Team Builds

Post by LordYanaek »

Amur_Tiger wrote: Bester would be proud of that squad name though, until he sacrifices the lot of them.
:thumbsup: :D
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