Mid-game Vig manipulation for GOp

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Psieye
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Mid-game Vig manipulation for GOp

Postby Psieye » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:17 am

1.5 patch notes wrote:Region vigilance gets a little sticker. Reduced the number of workers at an outpost for the baseline vigilance decay time of 1 week from 9 to 7; reduced the impact of having more or less than that from a max of 3 days to 2.


Huh, the google doc laying out the mission details is offline. Falling back on this old reddit post for data.

Assuming you're not insane and trying to do missions at Str 8+, it's only Vig that matters for locking out missions.
HighValuePrisoner: max Vig 6
Prisoners: max Vig 7
Propaganda: max Vig 6
ProtectData: max Vig 12 (Intel + PoI)
ProtectResearch: max Vig 10
TroopManuevers: max Vig 15

If you don't have the mod that shows what Vig is, then Propaganda is how you tell if a region is ripe for HighValuePrisoner. SonnyWiFiHr's preaching boils down to "keep Vig low to fish for Scientists, cancel unwanted GOps quickly to make regions try to spawn a Scientist GOp sooner". Where "cancel a GOp" means "deliberately fail it (without taking wounds)". It's been noted in other threads that the Vig decay timer (7d if you have 7 working rebels, 9d if 13 rebels, 6d if 4 rebels) resets if you win a mission. Can someone confirm that it doesn't care if you fail a mission?

Are all ProtectData missions are "throw your own evac flare"? If so, then there might be sense in cancelling these missions in low Vig regions to force them to be snatched up by mid Vig regions. I'm thinking of the midgame, when you're contacting the 5th and 6th regions with about 2~3 regions starting to get hot. The ideal is for all the S&G to be taken by high Vig regions, all the ProtectData to spawn in mid Vig regions and keep low Vig regions quiet enough for continuous Prisoners and HighValuePrisoner.

Don't underestimate what you can get out of deliberately failed missions if you have manpower to spare. Lamp hacks, loot drops, kill XP, halved mission XP - they all add up. Sure you'd get more if you succeed the mission but that would harm the long-term objective of farming HighValuePrisoner.
Previous 1.5 Commander campaign for the 8-man GOp squad.
The current one.

faket15
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Re: Mid-game Vig manipulation for GOp

Postby faket15 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:29 pm

Psieye wrote:It's been noted in other threads that the Vig decay timer (7d if you have 7 working rebels, 9d if 13 rebels, 6d if 4 rebels) resets if you win a mission. Can someone confirm that it doesn't care if you fail a mission?


Can confirm Vigilance decay doesn't care if you fail a mission.

Psieye wrote:Are all ProtectData missions are "throw your own evac flare"?


No, a Protect Data can be a Hack Workstation, Recover Item, Destroy Relay, Rescue VIP or Extract VIP.

Psieye
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Re: Mid-game Vig manipulation for GOp

Postby Psieye » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:58 pm

faket15 wrote:a Protect Data can be a Hack Workstation, Recover Item, Destroy Relay, Rescue VIP or Extract VIP.

I seek to distinguish between VIP missions from ProtectData and HighValuePrisoner. Is the difference "comes with a PoI"?
Previous 1.5 Commander campaign for the 8-man GOp squad.
The current one.

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SonnyWiFiHr
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Re: Mid-game Vig manipulation for GOp

Postby SonnyWiFiHr » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:31 pm

Preacher in person.
If you do it in early game you don't hunt in mid-game.
HighValuePrisoner: max Vig 6 . Vigilance 5
Prisoners: max Vig 7. = V 6
Propaganda: max Vig 6 = V 5
ProtectData: max Vig 12 (Intel + PoI) = V 11
ProtectResearch: max Vig 10 = V 9
TroopManuevers: max Vig 15 = V 14 (can't confirm)

Why ? They don't spawn at Max vig or -I broke my game

Skipping faceless - no decay. Don't kill faceless is up to you to confirm (if you get one before me)
The Preacher

faket15
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Re: Mid-game Vig manipulation for GOp

Postby faket15 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:10 pm

Psieye wrote:
faket15 wrote:a Protect Data can be a Hack Workstation, Recover Item, Destroy Relay, Rescue VIP or Extract VIP.

I seek to distinguish between VIP missions from ProtectData and HighValuePrisoner. Is the difference "comes with a PoI"?


No, it isn't. A Protect Data VIP mission always comes with a PoI while a HVP comes without a PoI if the VIP is a Scientist/Engineer but still has one if the VIP is a soldier. "Free an Important Prisoner" instead of "Find a Lead" means HVP.

faket15
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Re: Mid-game Vig manipulation for GOp

Postby faket15 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:16 pm

SonnyWiFiHr wrote:Why ? They don't spawn at Max vig or -I broke my game


They do spawn at max Vig, but remember that you don't detect them immediately. It's entirely possible that you didn't detect any of them between the spawn and the next Vig decay in your tests.

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SonnyWiFiHr
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Re: Mid-game Vig manipulation for GOp

Postby SonnyWiFiHr » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:34 pm

I should save scum them. I monitor vigi dec - launched mission exactly at that point
I know how to generate mission scum.
No they don't spawn. I can't get VIP if I go at 6
Not sure about jailbreak I could swear that I had one at 7 but after than not a single one.

I lowered Vig because I have a lot save scum results. Can someone confirm it in mid game ?
MaxVigilance = 6 & 7 not spawning missions of that type. I m sure that early game don't
The Preacher

Kamikaze Samurai
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Re: Mid-game Vig manipulation for GOp

Postby Kamikaze Samurai » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:20 pm

I'm amazed you guys have no love for Smash and Grab.

What good are all those scientists if you can't afford to build their inventions?

My liberate early and often strategy leaves me with fat bags of cash coming down in supply drops by mid Summer, so the limiting factors in production become alloy and elerium.

I feed on S+G for every morsel of these materials that I can get.

Psieye
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Re: Mid-game Vig manipulation for GOp

Postby Psieye » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:43 pm

Oh believe me I never let a S&G expire. Find one with 1d remaining? Send an 8-man to get the crates. In my last campaign, I built some 11 predator armours and had built 3 wardens before I realised I'd fucked up the strategic layer too much. That's in addition to some 11+ Mag rifles and a steady stream of Coilguns being built. The amount of time that gets 'wasted' cracking open Cores and Mec bodies for raw materials aggravates me.

After my last campaign I've concluded that Intel is secretly the real bottleneck. We understand well the need for research, as well as supplies/elerium/alloy. But Intel is nowhere near as interchangeable as the other resources. Science, Equipment, Money - none of that matters when Advent has you boxed in with Str 6+ regions everywhere.

Here is a fun S&G report, 8-man vs 27 and I stupidly let a spec bleed out for no good reason (lesson learnt: Scan Prot isn't THAT long range). That spec was the only casualty, the remaining 7 soldiers came out unwounded despite 19 enemies being active at once towards the end. Tanks held the center while the assault tore up the left flank and the shinobi trolled the right flank until the decisive turn with Reaper -> EXO.
Previous 1.5 Commander campaign for the 8-man GOp squad.
The current one.

Kamikaze Samurai
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Re: Mid-game Vig manipulation for GOp

Postby Kamikaze Samurai » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:59 pm

Sounds exciting.

You are clearly a better tactician than I am.
I only get away with under-infiltrating when I can send in a whole squad of rocket-maxed technicals in exosuits.

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SonnyWiFiHr
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Re: Mid-game Vig manipulation for GOp

Postby SonnyWiFiHr » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:44 pm

They are worth one lamp post. I do not avoid them.
They are not high priority mission.

Psieye send 8 man on every mission 1 day infiltration is max for him. This is rushing.
How did you find yourself in intel shortage? It is impossible with 8 man GoPs. You should be swimming in it.
Don't boost - 3 advent more or less. Boost Shinobi only - must do mission. Use those damn scientist they are dusty in your hands. Put them on exercise.. If they can't be used in 8 man GOPs they don't exist ?

I just put man in shorts on ice.
The Preacher

Psieye
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Re: Mid-game Vig manipulation for GOp

Postby Psieye » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:53 am

SonnyWiFiHr wrote:How did you find yourself in intel shortage?

This is why I don't have confidence in your advice. I won't repeat my full answer here, in short: where you expand matters as much as (if not more than) when you expand. Your experience is focussed on optimising the earlygame. You give little indication of how things turn out in the midgame and lategame. Since I'm saying that, I disclose again that I've no experience of the lategame either: I've stopped all my campaigns before October - either because a new patch came out or because a new playstyle idea pops in my head (Mar->June takes about as long as June->July for me and it only gets slower).
Previous 1.5 Commander campaign for the 8-man GOp squad.
The current one.

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SonnyWiFiHr
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Re: Mid-game Vig manipulation for GOp

Postby SonnyWiFiHr » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:52 pm

Noted . It is time to play full campaign.
No save scum test.
I will try to start with 4 connections
Just to make rookie factory in 5 region. I did reading of your campaign and Specialist shortage is biggest issue.
The Preacher


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