Snapshot Sniper Questions

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babyface_killah
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:41 am

Snapshot Sniper Questions

Post by babyface_killah »

Hey All,

Long time lurker, first time poster here. I've got a sniper who got lucky with some pretty great AWC perks. I built the AWC pretty late in my campaign so I had already started training her as a scout officer holotargeter (all center tree perks) before I discovered her AWC perks:

Quick Study
Deep Cover
Untouchable
Shredder
Bring Em On
Rupture

Based on the fact that she is an officer and I don't want her lurking in the back and that she has quick study so I would want to train pistol perks on her, I decided to respec her as a snapshot sniper. I've never used a snapshot sniper in LW2 before so I have a few questions about how the mechanics work:

1: Does double tap work with snapshot? Meaning could I move and then activate double tap to shoot twice?
2: How does double tap interact with pistols? Could I shoot a pistol with quickdraw and then double tap and shoot twice without moving?
3: If I steady my weapon the turn before and then shoot a pistol with quickdraw, do I lose my steady?
4: Does the sniper shot after the pistol shot count as a normal shot or a snapshot shot (with regards to aim penalties).
5: What MSGT perk would you recommend for this build? I was thinking either double tap or AMF depending on the answers to the above. Serial doesn't seem like a good choice since she won't have DFA Elevation and won't be steadied a lot of the time

My perk plan is:
Snapshot (already taken)
Center Mass (already taken)
Precision Shot (already taken)
Low Profile
Agression
Hunter's Instincts
Double Tap or AMF

Any suggestions? Thanks for your replies!
Unfawkable
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:29 pm

Re: Snapshot Sniper Questions

Post by Unfawkable »

1. No, Double tap requires both actions to use, and refunds both actions (Albeit limited to shoot, overwatch).
2. Not with quickdraw since it costs 1 action and double tap requires 2, but you can use it with Lightning hands since it's a free action.
3. You lose the steady, steady bonus only counts for the sniper rifle, and for the first shot you take with any weapon.
4. the second shot would count as a snap shot, regular shot costs 2 actions (Unless you used lightning hands as mentioned in 2)
5. If you are using pistols, Alpha Mike Foxtrot is a better choice in my opinion, as you have seen from the previous points double tap is lacking, and serial would maybe slightly better, but the 4 damage from Foxtrot carries over to pistols
Edit: Actually I'd need someone to confirm number 5, I think it carries over but the wiki just says primary weapon. I could have sworn a solider once did bonus pistol damage from Lethal.

You can easily differentiate the action costs of skills by their color by the way. Yellow icons cost 2 actions, regular icons cost 1, and green cost 0. The tooltip when hovering also tells you whether it will end your turn or not.
babyface_killah
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:41 am

Re: Snapshot Sniper Questions

Post by babyface_killah »

Thanks for the info!

If AMF applied to pistols that would be crazy and would definitely make it my number 1 choice for this build. I'm imagining fan fire / face off with center mass + AMF + BEO + Agression + Hunters Instinct. I was under the impression it only applied to primary weapons, though.
Unfawkable
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:29 pm

Re: Snapshot Sniper Questions

Post by Unfawkable »

babyface_killah wrote:Thanks for the info!

If AMF applied to pistols that would be crazy and would definitely make it my number 1 choice for this build. I'm imagining fan fire / face off with center mass + AMF + BEO + Agression + Hunters Instinct. I was under the impression it only applied to primary weapons, though.
The text on the wiki does say literally primary weapon, but not ever actually playing pistols I wouldn't know first hand. By elimination, that would leave Serial the choice, but even it only works with the primary weapon. It seems like pistols have been intentionally made not to work with sharpshooters all that well.
faket15
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:41 pm

Re: Snapshot Sniper Questions

Post by faket15 »

Just confirming here that AMF and Lethal do not apply to pistol damage, but Center Mass and Hunter's Instincts do.
Psieye
Posts: 829
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:27 am

Re: Snapshot Sniper Questions

Post by Psieye »

If you ask me, Serial is the choice for snapshot. Other snipers can use Serial if they get some support, but snapshot snipers can extend the streak on their own just by moving (or reloading).
My three 8-man GOp squad Commander campaigns:
1st
2nd
3rd
gimrah
Long War 2 Crew
Posts: 422
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:25 pm

Re: Snapshot Sniper Questions

Post by gimrah »

Definitely serial on snapshot. Synergises the best. They also massively benefit from mobility armour (ideally with a high hp vest). Often you can move and grapple to behind a bunch of enemies and kill them all.

To be honest, those soldiers are great all the way through but godlike at MSGT. They can use pistol perks but they don't need them to shine, it will mean less use out of the soldier while training and slower route to MSGT. Also it's a squishy soldier and the pistol is instead of an ammo or a vest.

Ironically I think the best build for pistol perks is the holobot officer, especially with quick study. RT->CM->HDH->LP->VPT->HI->[any]. A good build for any poor aim sharps you get. Officer perks, holotargeting and pistol perks synergise well because they have a lot of non-turn-ending options. And he probably doesn't shoot the rifle unless steadied at the start of an engagement.
Dwarfling
Posts: 524
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Re: Snapshot Sniper Questions

Post by Dwarfling »

gimrah wrote:A good build for any poor aim sharps you get.
If you go DFA with DGG, the starting aim will eventually become irrelevant. The Sharpshooter will suck for the first levels and you'll need to use a scope but after that they'll contribute like any other DFA, they just won't be as amazing as the +72aim rookies at hitting vs high cover. If you got as unlucky as sorting a 56aim rookie into Sharpshooter, you can pick Lone Wolf too and they'll pick up the slack, at the cost of damage output. But at least you won't depend on deploying with a large team that can handle a member doing almost no damage.
gimrah
Long War 2 Crew
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Re: Snapshot Sniper Questions

Post by gimrah »

For me the purpose of a DfA sniper is to hit targets in full cover. That does require pretty darned good aim. And ideally aim so good that you can trade out the scope for a laser sight. He also needs to kill when he hits, so trading out the damage perks hurts quite a lot.

I take my holobot officer on GOps. Maybe not the 4 man ones (rare for me anyway), but 5 or 6 man ones, sure. My GOp squads often have basically one good gun, which is on a ranger. Holotargeting or commanding him essentially is damage output. The pistol allows finishing / move and shoot options. He's just very versatile.

I find with sharps I just build them into whatever the stats favour and it's fine. Snapshot sharps are the most consistently useful, but this campaign I got 2 DfAs and an RT and it's fine.
Psieye
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Re: Snapshot Sniper Questions

Post by Psieye »

A DfA sniper's job for me is shooting targets 50 tiles away with some compensation for the extreme range inaccuracy. I often don't care to get that sniper to high ground before sniping away.
My three 8-man GOp squad Commander campaigns:
1st
2nd
3rd
Unfawkable
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:29 pm

Re: Snapshot Sniper Questions

Post by Unfawkable »

You all just got me really interested in the holobot officer, I never could make and use a decent holotargeter sharpshooter, and it never did occur to me to make him into an officer. Now, what are the odds of getting a high mobility and HP sharpshooter with Quick Study :D
Psieye
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Re: Snapshot Sniper Questions

Post by Psieye »

Unfawkable wrote:You all just got me really interested in the holobot officer, I never could make and use a decent holotargeter sharpshooter, and it never did occur to me to make him into an officer. Now, what are the odds of getting a high mobility and HP sharpshooter with Quick Study :D
Why does he need HP? He shouldn't be seen with phantom.

For the record, I turn all my snipers into officers.
My three 8-man GOp squad Commander campaigns:
1st
2nd
3rd
Unfawkable
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:29 pm

Re: Snapshot Sniper Questions

Post by Unfawkable »

Psieye wrote:Why does he need HP? He shouldn't be seen with phantom.

For the record, I turn all my snipers into officers.
Well center mass works with pistols, so it's tempting as an alternative.

All your snipers? Even DFA ones? They usually stay well outside the command range, I don't think that's very efficient.

Also, what works best as MSGT skill on holo bulds? All of them sound underwhelming and not pistol oriented.
Redshirt4life
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Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:22 am

Re: Snapshot Sniper Questions

Post by Redshirt4life »

Holotargetting skills are very powerful with pistols. Pistols take multiple shots and holotarget buffs all of them. Faceoff + multitarget. Get +20 aim, +20 crit, and +2 damage on every shot? Center Mass can't compete with that. It also works great with officer perks as they can holo + command without breaking stealth. I went with serial at msgt on mine so they can use free actions afterwards to holo enemies behind cover, but it doesn't really matter. They can holo before combat and use rapid with any msgt skill.

You must take serial with snapshot though. There is no other option here. Snapshot snipers are the best serial snipers. They are the only ones who can move to keep the chain going, reload in the middle of the chain, and reposition to flank and activate hunters instincts. Just a heads up though, you have to activate serial before you move. Serial works with snapshot just fine, but you can't activate it after you move (its annoying).

There are going to be some issues with your sharpshooter being an officer, a pistoleer, and a snapshot sniper. All of these are competing for your 2 actions per turn. It's going to he hard to ever find an opportune moment to actually use any of the officer perks. These perks have diminishing returns as your soldier can only take so many actions in a turn. Since you can't choose who your officer is, you may be shooting yourself in the foot burying the powerful command skill under the pile of skills this soldier has. Espesially if you have another soldier, like your shinobi, twiddling his thumbs on the same turn.

Look at the action economy of your whole squad, and of each of your soldiers. Ideally you would want to spread out the squad's skills in such a way that soldiers who have fewer viable actions are given additional perks via officer and pistoleer so that everyone on your squad can be useful and effective on every turn of combat. Ideally your officers wouldn't be your super soldier, they will be the ones giving your super soldiers an additional action.
Psieye
Posts: 829
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Re: Snapshot Sniper Questions

Post by Psieye »

Unfawkable wrote:All your snipers? Even DFA ones? They usually stay well outside the command range, I don't think that's very efficient.
That's under a standard distribution, where the sniper is far back and everyone else has to be visible because they're fighting. It forces you to kill enemy pods ASAP as otherwise someone will get shot.

In an 8-man GOp squad, only one guy at a time should ever be seen by the enemy. Everyone else is next to the sniper(s). Command on a sniper officer becomes the FUBAR button that should never need to be used if the mission is executed well. And by 'executed well' I mean "25+ aliens dead and half the squad never had to shoot after the first pod until there was only one pod left". Usually that doesn't happen and those guys are taking amazingly buffed OW shots to prevent the sniper from being seen.
Unfawkable wrote: Also, what works best as MSGT skill on holo bulds? All of them sound underwhelming and not pistol oriented.
Double Tap. No matter how bad their Aim is, they are still guaranteed to hit an alien relay at range 60.
My three 8-man GOp squad Commander campaigns:
1st
2nd
3rd
gimrah
Long War 2 Crew
Posts: 422
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:25 pm

Re: Snapshot Sniper Questions

Post by gimrah »

For me the holobot officer often is in the middle of the squad, doing officer things and using his pistol. So hp is nice. But defence is probably better. Then the enemy will just shoot someone else. Mobility needs to be average ideally, say 15. But if you have 15 mobility and low aim you probably have some ok defensive stats. If you have 15+ mobility and goodish aim I would advocate a snapshot build instead. I find those the most consistently useful.
babyface_killah
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:41 am

Re: Snapshot Sniper Questions

Post by babyface_killah »

Thanks for all the input, looks like I will definitely go for Serial for my MSGT perk. Related to this:
Unfawkable wrote:There are going to be some issues with your sharpshooter being an officer, a pistoleer, and a snapshot sniper. All of these are competing for your 2 actions per turn. It's going to he hard to ever find an opportune moment to actually use any of the officer perks. These perks have diminishing returns as your soldier can only take so many actions in a turn. Since you can't choose who your officer is, you may be shooting yourself in the foot burying the powerful command skill under the pile of skills this soldier has. Espesially if you have another soldier, like your shinobi, twiddling his thumbs on the same turn.
I had already started training her as an officer before I discovered her AWC perks and respec'ed her. But I've only trained the first 2 or 3 ranks so maybe I will just leave her there and let someone else who has more ranks be the commanding officer on the vast majority of missions. I do like idea of a frontline sniper boosting everyone's aim with lead by example though...
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