How early is too early to liberate?

SpinDoctor
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Re: How early is too early to liberate?

Post by SpinDoctor »

Psieye wrote:
SpinDoctor wrote:Not sure what to do about neighbors wanting strength. Intercept the Columns and Supply I guess.
Just to be clear, that'll raise Vigilance in the neighbours - there'll be a net concentration of Str gathering in the vicinity from trying to kill off 1 Str. Maybe that's what you want. Alternatively, you can contact that region and vow never to do a mission there - recruit your way up to a suitable sized haven then flip it to supply. Though I personally would be loathe to do that because of an inclination to min/max mission spawns on the strategic layer.
You need a certain amount of vigilance just to manage the doom clock. My last campaign, I had vigilance running high most of the time, so the Avatar Project was never really a concern. It might be more difficult to manage in higher levels, though. I just did this current liberation and the Clock is at 2 pips with GV at "Guarded". So managing it should be easy.

I'm currently watching one guys vids on the tube and he seemed so concerned with raising vigilance throughout the campaign, that once he finally liberated a region (fairly late in the game) the doom clock was 3-4 pips from being full. He's a good player so he made the adjustments to counter it, but it pretty much consumed all of his attention from that point forward. His campaign is still ongoing and his main concern is beating down the clock, which did fill up once, and he just barely caught it. If he'd been more aggressive early on, he would not have had to deal with all that.
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SonnyWiFiHr
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Re: How early is too early to liberate?

Post by SonnyWiFiHr »

Skullmine Officer -kill Codex.
Expand with 4-5 man per mission - no more no less
Play at Severe as soon as possible. Make move towards Black Site. If you are in July or late just jump to the Black Site .
When you hit Extreme add month .

Global Advent Alert is difference between Number of Legions and Global Vigilance. Kill one and increase other by doing missions.
If Video-guy is playing Legendary, first thing to do is do both and ignore boosting normal missions (except Jailbreak - rebels for detection). Just boost Supply Raids to doable level. Heavy is suicide after March.
Intercept every UFO on your ground if it have 2 day timer . It should be enough . You will have most of regions with 30 Vigilance (6 month of cooling off) .

Managing Strength and Vigilance is just that - kill UFO and mop up strength on map . If you have plenty of full havens this is not even problem. If you allow Strength to build up than you have only one choice . Golden Path .
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SonnyWiFiHr
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Re: How early is too early to liberate?

Post by SonnyWiFiHr »

Found these new nice info.

So if you want to reduce retaliations, you have two paths.

1/ You can reduce the number of Rebels working on a Job to reduce the speed at which that bucket fills and/or reduce the overall number of working rebels to reduce the speed at which the full retaliation bucket fills.
2/ You can contact more regions and liberate more regions so that it takes longer to fill the buckets. Each additional region contacted makes the pool take about 17.6% longer to fill than before. A liberated region makes it take 38.4% longer to fill.

If you don't want retaliations Liberate and expand first . Ask questions later.

How early is too early to liberate? Answer - How many retaliations do you like ?

http://pavonisinteractive.com/phpBB3/vi ... hp?t=26049
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gimrah
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Re: How early is too early to liberate?

Post by gimrah »

In my current campaign I just flip high strength regions to supply. Keeps your income up. Supply mini retals are fairly easy usually. The constant rng full retal tends to let you get most or all rebels out. If you get the other sort, well it has to go somewhere. That has worked a lot better for me than hiding and actively trying to recover the region. I am more wary of high strength intel mini retals, which can get your rebels massacred. And I avoid any recruit mini retals as those are a nightmare - less for rebels but certainly for your soldiers.
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SonnyWiFiHr
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Re: How early is too early to liberate?

Post by SonnyWiFiHr »

This works in winter when you can fetch more with haven. One S&G can be better than month of supply job

In Spring - you have little chance of doing UFO. In early April only your starting region can fetch good timer UFO.
Late April - two more towers and you can chase them (just to find spawning time).
5-7 days after finished actual UFO mission you can switch same haven on intel. They must be fully operational and in full detection when UFO spawns. If you miss it than 5 days after increase in Strength

Super UFO have bigger timer - they will find it. Normal UFO is less important and new regions should search for it (they are magnet for them). Scientist is must (tower +20% detection , Scientist +20% detection)
May - you can catch most of them. (you know spawning times) If they spawn in non contacted region - good more supply raids
June - your map is free of strength. Nothing moves and you can focus your havens . Retail in Strength 3 region is just another day in paradise. Your actual strength on map should be less than in the beginning. You can do missions with Laser/ballistic in them. There is good chance to detect all 3 UFOs if your Strength in those regions is not over 4.

One condition must be met (optional)- Global Alert level should be Severe. Rapid expansion will put you in this range in March or April (Supply raids in 3-4 regions is enough). Chasing normal UFOs (two of them) is just waste of intel job compared to Super UFO. Still you will kill 4 Space Strength get +2 Avenger power and you will not waste research on Alloys.

I started this from need. I had 44-48 strength on map in April and early May. There was no easy way out of it. Not doing Liberation 2 in some regions (crap rewards) helped a lot to kill the Strength. They were just transit regions by that time and I was ready in Tower + Scientist regions for - everything including few S&G. (450 supply vs 300 on supply job) .
Now I m playing on map with 36 Strength (2,25 Strength Average on whole world). Still using Laser squad, no armor ,because they can operate in this conditions. I know where my Supply Raid vigilance has gone and I will kill more strength in June (after contacting 9th or 10th region)
POI - is bad reward , 2x POI = New region. I did not scan 75% of them. New region must be contacted ASAP nor free contacts on Avenger. Full rapid expansion for low level Advent Legions /Strength map. There is no time for POI if you have free contacts.
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Psieye
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Re: How early is too early to liberate?

Post by Psieye »

SpinDoctor wrote:
Psieye wrote:
SpinDoctor wrote:Intercept the Columns and Supply I guess.
Just to be clear, that'll raise Vigilance in the neighbours. Maybe that's what you want.
You need a certain amount of vigilance just to manage the doom clock.
While global vigilance is something to keep an eye on, my previous post was written with local vigilance in mind. Maybe you'd consider it "gaming the system" to be manipulating which GOps spawn where.
My three 8-man GOp squad Commander campaigns:
1st
2nd
3rd
Dwarfling
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Re: How early is too early to liberate?

Post by Dwarfling »

You don't really need to keep global vigilance high not to lose. What you need is to keep your intel (resource) game up at all times and keep expanding so that you get to the regions where the GP missions spawn. Which means you should really think before spending intel on things like boosts and interventions.
SpinDoctor
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Re: How early is too early to liberate?

Post by SpinDoctor »

Dwarfling wrote:You don't really need to keep global vigilance high not to lose. What you need is to keep your intel (resource) game up at all times and keep expanding so that you get to the regions where the GP missions spawn. Which means you should really think before spending intel on things like boosts and interventions.
Definitely a key consideration.
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SonnyWiFiHr
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Re: How early is too early to liberate?

Post by SonnyWiFiHr »

If you are low on intel.
Intel + POI mission usually spawn in medium vigilance (around 12) regions with S&G.
It is worth of scanning there if you have free soldiers (or just to keep other regions in lower vigilance) for much needed early intel.
You can detect them very easy and they have less baseline difficulty. Avenger is not needed
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gimrah
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Re: How early is too early to liberate?

Post by gimrah »

I've had a fairly successful strategic layer this run by only liberating one region. (Not sure what happens if you lose it - I fought off two invasions.) XCom threat has been low for much of the campaign, despite keeping my soldiers pretty busy most of the time.

I've tried to conserve intel. I've done very few boosts. At times I've waited to expand to find out where the next GP mission is. Otherwise I've prioritised regions with greater connectivity and/or which get me closer to the most distant region on the globe.

I've also had really good specialists this campaign (ironically given previous complaints), which is making a huge difference to intel income in late game. I am regularly getting an extra 10-35 intel per mission from objectives and lampposts. (Not so much skullmining because 70% to hit and high hack defence means I fail most of the time.) But caveat my specialists have had a following wind this campaign: I prevented advent firewalls DE until December, I got a lot of drone wrecks and officer corpses in mid game (for T2 gremlins and skulljacks), I got soldiers with good AWC perks like shredder (for OW) and quick study (for officer). I even managed to accumulate a collection of sectopod wrecks pretty quickly after I hit their force level (for T3 gremlin).

Now in December. Doom meter got to within 2 pips of full when I hit Psi gate. I've contacted the Forge region for whenever I'm ready, and I'm on the hunt for a codex. I should be able to finish without doing a facility (which is good because I find those can be very tough). Assuming no disasters in tactical of course.
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SonnyWiFiHr
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Re: How early is too early to liberate?

Post by SonnyWiFiHr »

How bad advent firewalls DE is ? I think it only affect Mechanicals.
This one skipped me but I m hacking with my mostly +10 hack reward Specialists. (Mk2 Gremlin and Advanced skulljack was first thing to do).
Skullmine have better chance to hit if it is not first action on your turn (hacking reward is still random). It follow same RND rule when you miss - hack, if you crit - do not hack (not 100% on Legendary but it works in most cases)
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gimrah
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Re: How early is too early to liberate?

Post by gimrah »

Firewalls is +15 to hack defence. If it happens early your specialists go through the campaign finding it harder to hack. That makes them less useful, I'm more likely to leave them off missions, so they don't level, so their hack is less likely to catch up, and they spiral into irrelevance. (OW is nice-ish but my playstyle doesn't use it much.)
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SonnyWiFiHr
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Re: How early is too early to liberate?

Post by SonnyWiFiHr »

I had Firewalls quite early. Only low level Specs could not hack MEC.
As you know I m only training Specialist and I rush Gremlin Mk2 and Skulljack ASAP (if supply allow ).
They are on every mission because I missed few +10 hack hack and even Spark can hack Lampost (harder hack than MEC) .
My early and mid economy is fueled by Specialist (90% of income).

My lucky Specialists (+10 hack x2 or more) already have chance vs Heavy MEC (85+15) and slim chance vs 120 hacking defense (20-45%). I hacked few Advanced Troopers etc. and had chance to hack . It was not below 20% vs 125 hack defense. Bigger problem is to hit with skulljack than to try small or big reward. Small is much bigger number.

I m on MEC hunt now and Firewalls are minor buff vs 150 hacking power of my best Specs. Every +10 hack is best hack possible . I have low level Specs with hacking over 100. PCS can give more. Only thing to do is get more drones and officers. Spamming Specialist for early missions and for +10 hack allow me to hack big hack for 100%. Same goes for MEC just few times was under 75% with firewalls. Early game was generous but in April hacking was almost sure thing despite RND (my first Heavy MEC) . Then I had Firewalls and Skulljack + Gremlin Mk2 in same time. +10 hack hunt never stopped .
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tempsur
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Re: How early is too early to liberate?

Post by tempsur »

I find it depends on the state of my other regions. I have a full one at strength 3 where I am currently infiltrating Lib3. I have another at strength 1 where I am running easy GOps. And a fourth I've just contacted and am recruiting in.
alberttjohn8
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Re: How early is too early to liberate?

Post by alberttjohn8 »

Playing Legend. I know from Commander he can oneshot an armoured soldier in full cover. I don't actually know how much damage he does though. It's possible I'm conflating with the M2 general. hello dear
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srijoy91
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Re: How early is too early to liberate?

Post by srijoy91 »

I like the idea of shawdowstep hunker tanking, assuming I have a shadowstep one available. But I generally feel that it's ok once it's just the general. My whole squad can probably focus him down between them. But really you need to CC him for a turn while you go to town on the rest of his pod.

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