Commander mag and psi rush campaigns

gimrah
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Commander mag and psi rush campaigns

Post by gimrah »

Finally started a Legend campaign. Thought I'd share thoughts on two Commander campaigns. One mag rush / laser skip, one psi rush (i.e. first before lasers or any buildings).

Summary of mag rush campaign: it worked very well on Commander. Rocky April and early May with just ballistics, but then absolutely dominated the mid game, allowing a strong snowball.

Summary of psi rush campaign on Commander: it worked out fine. Having those very powerful characters makes end game easier. But I'm not sure it was worth making the early and mid game harder due to all that resource and research going in so early.

Most challenging periods of either rush strategy was April/May as FL creeps up while you don't have weapon tech. But psi rush also had another difficulty peak as M3s came in and I was still nowhere near coil. Regardless of start, I've then found there is a tough period with pretty much all M3 enemies while you don't have warden (or enough warden).

Mag rush campaign had some minor savescumming. Don't think psi rush campaign did, except for troll civilians and one or two things like that. Psi rush campaign narrowly escaped three potential catastrophes. Two from troop columns executed badly and activating everything on the map simultaneously. One on a late game all-M3 HQ raid. Slightly dinged up squad fighting command pod: 2 MSGTs on last turn of bleed out and advent general causing havoc - sharpshooter hits her coin-toss shot to save 3 lives and possibly a wipe. About half a dozen actual deaths, mostly going singly in 'shit happens' events when situations got away from me slightly (najas are either trivial or deadly IME!). Mag campaign was similar story IIRC.

Star soldiers of the psi rush campaign were probably my two snapshot sharpshooters (full right side build). They were consistently strong and frequently pivotal throughout the campaign and useful on all mission types. I did mobility armour just for them and got really good value from it.

Grenadiers were really good throughout on both, but especially mag rush campaign when I had two high aim soldiers [EDITS: decide to] become grenadiers, and they could use rifles effectively. I always go RD and FK but I've had success with damage+smoke or less damage+flash. I also like shoot+smoke grenadiers as officers, but if I'm honest this really needs quick study available as the soldier needs officer and AWC perks, and won't get that many kills. But I find they are nice to have leading big missions.

Most powerful end game soldier I've had in either campaign was arc thrower + rifle spec assault, but she was petty weak until TSGT, then decent and then godly at MSGT.

Least favourite soldier - probably specialist. Went OW spec (some OW/medic, some OW/hack) but was mostly underwhelmed. Found they ranked slowly as didn't get many kills: OW shots doing damage but usually not killing, and then they don't kill much on XCom's turn. But some clutch hacks admittedly - pairing well with pistol psi using redscreen rounds: whatever you are, you're mine!

Gunners OK, in shooty or suppression builds. Rangers strong in both shooty hybrid (WF-LO-CuP-Fort-Imp-RF-KZ) and full centre column yolo build. Shinobis strong, mainly in sword build. Techs strong in rocket build (I am a full convert), going either all leftside except quickburn, or going shredder and rapid fire if they have higher aim / lower survivability. Assault strong at given rank but always injured and tend to lag in rank.

Psi usually go officer or pistols and become a toolbox soldier, which I find fun. Always take stasis, void rift [EDIT: meant null lance] and domination where available. Everything else is optional. Tried schism and void rift and it's still weak: VR only triggers insanity some of the time. And schism means that any enemies you MC with insanity die to fewer enemy shots, so it can often work against you.

Made a Spark in mag rush campaign given the synergy. Was OK. Not great for the investment: a little better than a bio soldier in certain situations but often worse in others. Great burst damage. Great in breakdown when fully tanked up with perks and gear, but takes a while to get there. Bombard is nice + niche use on invasions. Aim not good enough. Strike is terrible.

Meanwhile I had a rude awakening to Legend: felt pushed to do a 4-man mission as my first GOp (eesh), viper shows up (yikes) and crit-OSKs a soldier from yellow alert (WTF). Which led to code black. Second campaign is going a lot better. 6 weeks in and no deaths. I do feel the difficulty bump still here and there, e.g. longer research times (I think?), March MECs are unpleasant, harder to get 6 guys on a GOp.

EDIT: I can talk more about how the rushes went and build orders if anyone's interested. But essentially I do mean rush. After the 3 early research projects, do a basic research, spend all resources in pursuit (e.g. buying scientists/engies), don't do lasers, don't do buildings. I manage the long period on ballistics by using proper guns not SMGs even on grenadiers/technicals: rifle if decent aim or shotgun if decent movement. Also bring smokes in expectation of potential multi-turn fights. At least one AP ammo user per squad when available.
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Re: Commander mag and psi rush campaigns

Post by Xenos' Phobia »

I'm curious if you had to build your soldiers differently with ballistics in mind. For example, Center Mass would be supremely useful while skipping laser. Did you have any perks that helped carry you with ballistics until you achieved your rush tech?
gimrah wrote:I do feel the difficulty bump still here and there, e.g. longer research times (I think?)
You're correct. Base research times are multiplied by 1.25 on Legendary versus 1.1 on Commander.
Last edited by Xenos' Phobia on Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
gimrah
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Re: Commander mag and psi rush campaigns

Post by gimrah »

Not as much or in the way you might think. By the time you get to centre mass you're nearly through your rush.

At least on the mag rush. What I did find is that rifle users become relatively more valuable versus advanced weapon users. Because it will be some time longer before you get mag for those. Also the guns are expensive and so you get a clear distinction between soldiers whovare good shooters and those who aren't. You build a squad around say a ranger who can oneshot everything. Then other rifle users like high aim shred techs (also you have early access to MkII gauntlets).

On the psi rush it's more true on the perks. You take centre mass. You also take formidable and other perks good in breakdowns (reduce injuries and manipulate MECs). The first psis are also really effective initially as soulfire oneshits m1s often. Although that wouldn't be the case nearly as much on Legend when lots of early advent have more hp.
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Re: Commander mag and psi rush campaigns

Post by Xenos' Phobia »

I'm considering a Coil rush on Legendary. If I prioritize purchasing scientists and an early Laboratory, I calculate unlocking Coilguns the very end of May with Advanced Coilguns two weeks later. This pushes ballistic to the end of May, and it almost necessitates running an HQ on basic tech in order to afford Coil when it unlocks. I feel like most of my starting soldiers will have to be built with this in mind.

Did you run HQs before hitting your rush tech?
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Re: Commander mag and psi rush campaigns

Post by Dwarfling »

Don't you need like Mag Weapons or Adv. Mag Weapons plus Elerium to even research Coilguns anyways? So what do you mean by "Rushing Coilguns?" Are you skipping Laser also? Also are you sure that by late May you're gonna have access to the 50E for Elerium tech and also 15E for Coilgun tech and the 5E each weapon is gonna cost you? (each gun is also 50S-60S).
gimrah
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Re: Commander mag and psi rush campaigns

Post by gimrah »

I've never rushed lib. Never really got the hang of manipulating the strategic layer enough to try. Also I imagine you don't want to be running tough lib chain missions with ballistics.

I don't see how you could get coil in May. All out Mag rush gets the basics in earlyish May and advanced by end May. Then you need elerium, which takes 50 crystals and 5 cores, then two long expensive weapon projects. Plus you need even more scis to unlock research and engies to build them. That will probably take you into at least late June with no armour. Since you have to go via mag you'd have a few weapons but not many as you'd have to spend so much on research requirements.
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Re: Commander mag and psi rush campaigns

Post by Psieye »

gimrah wrote:Most powerful end game soldier I've had in either campaign was arc thrower + rifle spec assault, but she was petty weak until TSGT, then decent and then godly at MSGT.
I do miss my MSGT rifle assault in my last Commander campaign. He got Rapid Reaction from AWC. It wasn't unusual for him to setup 4~5 flank shots a turn with a Threat Assessment spec around.
Xenos' Phobia wrote:I'm considering a Coil rush on Legendary.
Experimentation is a valid way to derive fun from a game, even LW2. I believe joinrbs did a "stay on ballistics the whole game" campaign and he was doing better than he expected. Provided you remain sceptical to keep your own hopes down as you experiment, the time spent learning can still be fun.
My three 8-man GOp squad Commander campaigns:
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Xenos' Phobia
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Re: Commander mag and psi rush campaigns

Post by Xenos' Phobia »

Dwarfling wrote:Don't you need like Mag Weapons or Adv. Mag Weapons plus Elerium to even research Coilguns anyways? So what do you mean by "Rushing Coilguns?"
[RC, MW, BR, AB, HM, Trooper, Officer, Mag, A.Mag, Robotics, Elerium, Coil, A.Coil]
gimrah wrote:I don't see how you could get coil in May. All out Mag rush gets the basics in earlyish May and advanced by end May. Then you need elerium, which takes 50 crystals and 5 cores, then two long expensive weapon projects. Plus you need even more scis to unlock research and engies to build them.
I wrote a research calculator, and after playing around with different research orders, I came to the conclusion that a coil rush was theoretically possible provided you go absolutely all in. This means buying every scientist and an early Laboratory. You forego purchasing basically anything else in the early game to afford this, which means no other facilities until upgrading your Lab except for a Power Relay if you don't get a power POI.

Research is wholly focused on achieving coilguns with only one sidestep for Mk2 Gremlins with Robotics. This is to hopefully reap alloy and supply hack rewards, as well as control enemy MECs when paired with Bluescreen Bombs, which I feel is necessary to hang on in late May. Meeting up-front tech costs is the most iffy part of this strategy since you can't predict mission rewards/POIs, but this is somewhat mitigated by not wasting any resources researching Laser or building Mag.

Scientists are purchased from the Black Market ASAP. Laboratory is constructed and upgraded once by the second supply drop with the second and third upgrades complete by the third supply drop. I also assume rescuing one scientist per month. All this reduces to gaining effective scientists at roughly the following days.
  • 7 bm, 22 bm, 30 gop, 43 bm, 43 lab, 43 lab^, 60 gop, 64 bm, 64 lab^^, 64 lab^^^, 90 gop
The above applied to the research order results in the following dates of completion.
  • __6.5 3/07 RC
    __9.3 3/09 MW
    _26.0 3/26 BR
    _28.8 3/29 AB
    _32.5 4/02 HM
    _35.9 4/05 Trooper
    _42.9 4/12 Officer
    _55.1 4/24 Mag
    _65.9 5/05 A.Mag
    _67.5 5/07 Robotics
    _75.5 5/15 Elerium
    _90.0 5/29 Coil
    103.4 6/11 A.Coil
If it looks like engineer requirements are going to prevent construction of Coil, research some Basic Engineering/buy from BM.

I think at least one early HQ is necessary to afford the supply cost of Coil once unlocked. You'll want to liberate early May at the latest in order to collect a full cycle of supplies in time for Coil. You may also need to purchase elerium from the Black Market, but alloys will probably be in decent supply if you snag a couple hack rewards.

This is all based on a few assumptions and is by no means guaranteed, but I think unlocking Coil in May is a fun goal to theorycraft towards.
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Re: Commander mag and psi rush campaigns

Post by Dwarfling »

Well, if anything you can try it for science, going Bronzeman or even outright savescumming just to get thru the rough patches. However I don't think you're gonna have the resources to get there in a straight line, and even less to buy a bunch of guns. But hey, if you got the time, cuz I can't imagine it being any fun.

You could potentially try to push out Incendiaries since it's cheap and on the Coil tech path, maybe dealing with Robotics with Combat Protocol or hacks with Gremlin II's.
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SonnyWiFiHr
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Re: Commander mag and psi rush campaigns

Post by SonnyWiFiHr »

Get scientists first. From my games - it looks that they are not granted.
Wasting all that research to get ahead of time from my perspective is just bunch of abandoned missions and lots of dead soldiers.
It is OK to kill whole barracks (vest is so expensive) to gain minor buff for future rookies (they will die also because they can't hit even with mag and they don't have any equipment).

Rush campaign is something else - you have tons of Scientists and big barracks - period .
It is done by Exploiting vigilance cycle. It is actually not important when you start it .
It is risky operation to get every available scientist on map in multiple regions (intel) - even with high strength.
Loosing just one shinobi can stop it. [Edited] Phantom Sniper is big help if that happen (I finally understand this build)
I never had need to build Lab, GTS, AWC if I can spend all of that supply on - more rookies with equipment .
Rookies become soldier. Soldier make squad. Plenty of squads is - rushing on steroids
Big barracks will get more.
Making any rushing campaign - obsolete and not desirable.
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gimrah
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Re: Commander mag and psi rush campaigns

Post by gimrah »

As I say, mag rush worked well and was possibly superior to regular path. Major caveat is that was on Commander. Legend has longer research times and faster FL progression. Plus all enemies have more HP. That will make the period on ballistics rather harder.

I find that research speed is often not my constraint early on. Having the resources to build the stuff is. Partly that's because I'm not very good at manipulating the strategic layer. I don't usually manage to lib until late June or July. And I never seem to get troop columns, supply raids or doable UFOs early on.
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Re: Commander mag and psi rush campaigns

Post by SonnyWiFiHr »

Last time on Commander I had 4+ before 1st supply raid. After contacting third region I was looking at 7+ and I had big barracks to support my "region jumping".
With big barracks I stopped to infiltrate over 40%-60% and I was covering two missions with one squad .
3 more advent ? Not a big deal. 6 more - not a big deal.

It is hard to send 3 man squad on mission (or less) on Legendary because reinforcements can add up a lot of heat.
Sending 8 man on mission is possible only in first week or two if you have really good timers.
4-5 man is standard and just one alerted pod can hurt you quite.
I m forced to switch from hunting Scientist to hunting Jailbreaks just to build up barracks to hunt Scientist in April.
My current Legendary (on stand by) will give me 3 rookies in second week . This is almost squad. If I can keep my barracks out of wounds/deaths I will be a MUCH stronger. Doing more valuable missions in more regions.
Intel cost is huge so I tend to do them (No1 priority for me is intel, rookies, Sci, ).
Strength will raise in starting region and I want to be out of it. 5-7 strength vs 4-5 squad is - lots of wounds and death.
Big risk with lots of "green" troops
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gimrah
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Re: Commander mag and psi rush campaigns

Post by gimrah »

Sure the early snowball is effective.

But my mag came in at the phase of the campaign when I was doing the latter part of 1st lib chain, the first supply raids and othet challenging missions. At which point mag weapons are very powerful vs a mix of m1s and m2s and the aliens that accompanies them (basic vipers etc). So you can dominate that phase of the game and snowball hard during that phase. You just have to get through April and early May first.
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Re: Commander mag and psi rush campaigns

Post by Dwarfling »

I think the critical thing to analyse is: had I done the same strategy to speed up my research, wouldn't getting the Laser tech before Mag tech put me in the same/worse/better situation? Because without good weapons, a substantial part of your barracks that depend on weapon tech to be effective gets progressively worse as force level goes up, and it's still gonna take a while to finish Adv. Mag Weapons. Laser weapons aren't a trivial increment in power (at least in Legendary), and they're cheap enough that you can equip a substantial number of soldiers with them.
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Re: Commander mag and psi rush campaigns

Post by SonnyWiFiHr »

Agree
Not hitting enough is strateg/tactical huge penalty.
SMG/bomb spawn is not consistently reliable.
Early Laser Rifle is reduction in wounds/deaths. Price - delaying Mag for few weeks. You will get more scientist / supply / missions with bigger (not wounded) barracks.

My point is get bigger not "smarter".
1. When you have ability to deploy 36 man you lose problem with supply.
2. You will expand more and detect more Lib 2 (getting "smarter")
3. Less wounds = more exp (Even with laser they are more lethal because of extra perks)
4. Wounded/dead soldier = less missions
5. Strength 5+ missions with starting weapons = suicide.
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gimrah
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Re: Commander mag and psi rush campaigns

Post by gimrah »

On Commander I got through the ballistics phase of mag rush with no deaths. Might have been a bit lucky but I was mostly in control of missions. And then mag rifles allowed me to dominate the next phase in the game. I found that coincided with a phase I find challenging and lots of big missions in it (June). It therefore went better than previous conventional path campaigns.

On Legend I think it would be less attractive as the ballistics phase would be longer (research times) and harder (enemy hp). So I wouldn't necessarily recommend it.

If you are able to manipulate the strategic layer such that you liberate very early, e.g. early May, then it also wouldn't be worth it as you want the best tech you can get at that point. I generally liberate in June.
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Re: Commander mag and psi rush campaigns

Post by SonnyWiFiHr »

Extra HP is pain. I will go straight to Laser / ETC weapons (quality of life mod I just love damn sound on those weapons).
Tried with ballistic weapons + battle rifle mod. Battle rifle is -4 movement and only 2 ammo +1dmg. It tends to slow me down too much and can't reload every turn or two.

SMG and bombs - sometimes I shoot with SMG but most of the time I bomb .

Summary on classes:
Snap shoot sniper - quite good. Picking Phantom most of the time (extra shinobi )
Assault - Run and gun only if I have Shinobi scouting . They should have enough dmg but they are usually in hospital .
Ranger - can shoot but damage is nothing. They are so useless early
Spec - right side of the tree (?) can help with drones but I really need OW build
Shinobi - I m using them only if I must. I keep them alive and unhurt for low timer missions - they cannot be hit at any cost (swords tend to kill them )
Technical - Good for clearing cover (rocket). Flame - useful and risky
Grenadier - God but not enough dmg for "It can kill me" - targets

Laser will solve most of this problems. Ballistic just don't work against anything with more than 4 HP. Even in best scenario I can kill only sectoid in OW ambush and they are not alone.
Shotgun had nice chat with faceless - best weapon for early Rangers . I tend to use my Rangers as Assaults (everything is upside down on Legendary 1st/2nd month) .
All those perks that I usually skip or forget to use are my main weapons now. This will not work well after Force Level 3. I need ability to kill something that can kill me - first.

After watching Xwynns I decided that I will continue my campaign . (Only hour per day - after I get rid of that geoscpe flash )
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llll BlackFlag
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Re: Commander mag and psi rush campaigns

Post by llll BlackFlag »

Thanks for the synopsis gimrah!

I was wondering if you could comment on what squad compositions were successful for GOPs and for untimed missions like supply raids during either campaign. I'm about to try out a commander mag rush myself.
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Re: Commander mag and psi rush campaigns

Post by Psieye »

llll BlackFlag wrote:what squad compositions were successful for GOPs and for untimed missions like supply raids during either campaign. I'm about to try out a commander mag rush myself.
A Commander Mag Rush write-up with way too much detail. It kinda got ridiculous by August when I abandoned it. Discussion of the ridiculousness is linked in the last few posts of that thread.
My three 8-man GOp squad Commander campaigns:
1st
2nd
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gimrah
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Re: Commander mag and psi rush campaigns

Post by gimrah »

llll BlackFlag wrote:Thanks for the synopsis gimrah!

I was wondering if you could comment on what squad compositions were successful for GOPs and for untimed missions like supply raids during either campaign. I'm about to try out a commander mag rush myself.
Squad comps weren't radically different. During the period with no lasers, I would be more inclined to take rifles and shotguns on secondary users for the extra damage. Also put 1 AP ammo per squad on a shooty class.

You will benefit from rifle-based soldiers as these will get the upgraded tech some time before the advanced weapon users, and you want maximum impact as soon as you unlock basic mag. I like to build my squads around shooty (non-OW) rangers. I find one good gun goes a long way in the right hands. So for me, having some soldiers that can support my rangers is nice: cover destruction, holotargeting etc.

It doesn't have to be rangers: you may prefer OW specs. Also if any of your secondary users got good aim you may consider building around that. E.g. technicals can go mainly rockets but pick up shredder and ultimately rapid fire. Although centre mass on grenadiers never works out for me unless they have quick study and learn pistols.
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Re: Commander mag and psi rush campaigns

Post by llll BlackFlag »

gimrah wrote:
llll BlackFlag wrote:Thanks for the synopsis gimrah!

I was wondering if you could comment on what squad compositions were successful for GOPs and for untimed missions like supply raids during either campaign. I'm about to try out a commander mag rush myself.
Squad comps weren't radically different. During the period with no lasers, I would be more inclined to take rifles and shotguns on secondary users for the extra damage. Also put 1 AP ammo per squad on a shooty class.

You will benefit from rifle-based soldiers as these will get the upgraded tech some time before the advanced weapon users, and you want maximum impact as soon as you unlock basic mag. I like to build my squads around shooty (non-OW) rangers. I find one good gun goes a long way in the right hands. So for me, having some soldiers that can support my rangers is nice: cover destruction, holotargeting etc.

It doesn't have to be rangers: you may prefer OW specs. Also if any of your secondary users got good aim you may consider building around that. E.g. technicals can go mainly rockets but pick up shredder and ultimately rapid fire. Although centre mass on grenadiers never works out for me unless they have quick study and learn pistols.

I like playing shooty rangers with holotarget snipers as well. I always run into an issue using them on timed missions though. While the high cover slog fests are fun I always end up getting caught but the mission timer and/or reinforcements. How did you overcome the timer while using rifle based soldiers? Did you employ many Assault or Shinobis?
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Re: Commander mag and psi rush campaigns

Post by gimrah »

I double move for the first couple of turns before engaging. And then between engagements I'll scout with a shinobi or someone else fast, and I'll double move the ranger to keep up.

Still I prefer a ranger from a rookie with 67 aim and 15 movement to one with 75 aim and 13 movement. The latter can be a DfA sharp instead.

There are a couple of mission types I would consider not bringing a ranger unless it's at least got decent movement. Those are the ones with an objective and then an evac somewhere else. So jailbreaks and rescues from cell/vehicle. But I'd probably take my chances. In extracts, hacks, relays etc you often don't have to move very far. S&G is somewhere in between.

Snapshot sharps are my other main shooty class if I get suitable soldiers (good aim and decent movement). They can last a little longer before weapon upgrades as sniper rifles get decent damage and you'll take centre mass.
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Re: Commander mag and psi rush campaigns

Post by llll BlackFlag »

Cool, thank you for the tips. One of the biggest challenges I have is fielding cohesive team comps with a particular strategy in mind. I too often just throw a mix in (because it's what I have left in my barracks) and take wounds. Maybe training more rookies to grenadiers will help to support the shooters
Last edited by llll BlackFlag on Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
gimrah
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Re: Commander mag and psi rush campaigns

Post by gimrah »

llll BlackFlag wrote:Cool, thank you for the tips. One of the biggest challenges I have is fielding cohesive team comps with a particular strategy in mind. I too often just throw a mix in (because it's what I have left in my barracks) and take wounds. Maybe training more rookies to grenadiers will help to support the shooters
To be honest you will probably end up doing that anyway through necessity, i.e. wounds and having to tailor for different mission types.

I also build soldiers according to what they might be good at and what builds are strong. For example, sapper grenadiers are all well and good but RD builds are often stronger. If I have a grenadier with high aim and/or quick study, I'd rather go RD so he can do other useful things as well as grenades in those key turns. But if a soldier has junk stats he can go sapper and be useful.

Similarly I have decided I don't like OW specialists. But if I got a really high aim one, it would seem a waste not to build him that way.

So what that means is I don't have rigid squad compositions. I start with any mission-specific must-haves, i.e. specialist for hack missions and shinobi for unconcealed start mission. I then add my shooty soldier, usually a ranger and/or a snapshot sharp. Then I add a mixture or whatever else I have available, provided it must include at least one soldier with CC, e.g. gunner, RD grenadier, arc thrower assault or whatever. (Technicals are generally great on GOps so I deploy whenever available.)
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Re: Commander mag and psi rush campaigns

Post by SonnyWiFiHr »

I ended in creating Phantom Snipers. They are good only for first two months when I lack Shinobi-s.
Without Commander Choice I must have them on Legend.
My "most and must" builds are respec class.

Ranger - shotgun build - they can kill for sure and when number of enemy is low I prefer to kill not to shoot twice. Respec
Sniper - DFA - not a chance only in 4th squad . Snap shooters Phantom (they are shinobi-s early)
Technical - Tank or dead
Specialist - Drone killer than respec
Gunner - Tank or dead
Shinobi - Stealth . One man mission (if you dare)
Assault -Tank or dead
Grenadier - Sapper or I have lots of wounds/deaths . Respec for min maxing

Stats - Like I have choice there - whatever they roll up
Then when GTS is online respec for min/maxing
Only 70-75 aim can have luxury to shoot and I prefer to have minimal loses.
Equipment - SMG if below 70 and grenades.
If you are min maxing from start they end up dead. Kill everything if you must - fast (Smg = mobility + grenade = you will not hit with rifle).
Yellow alert killed my squad ?- pick phantom on sniper or use shinobi to scout. Do not engage before Laser.
If you want to be greedy like I m use Shinobi/Specialist combo to cover hard to infiltrate missions.
Laser tech - now your squad have better aim and more dmg. Respec good ones (they are not leveled that much) - rest is dead weight but useful. On commander you can build them from start because game is cheating for you - not on Legend
Of 100 rookies you can get only 25 good ones.
I wrote to much about how to get big barracks fast and you need big barracks to dominate commander/legend as soon as you can.
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