Fire Grenade Tunning

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osiyeza
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:16 pm

Fire Grenade Tunning

Post by osiyeza »

While it may be true that the fire grenade may be OP, adding RNG so that the target unit may or may not be disabled after you use it, makes it a total unreliable control tool.

Just adding a RNG to a OP item is not a wise balance choice, so if you are lucky you with an OP item and if you are not you get an useless one.

Just an idea, keep the chance of the fire effect, but if it fails, apply panic or disorient so you know that at least you can rely on making the target less effective.
Datadagger
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 7:04 pm

Re: Fire Grenade Tunning

Post by Datadagger »

My solution was to just revert fire back to vanilla and give the grenade a 100% chance to apply again. Fire grenades and dragon rounds are a balance nightmare that I don't think can really be solved as long as fire presents the ultimate in crowd control.
Doctor Sticks
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:40 am

Re: Fire Grenade Tunning

Post by Doctor Sticks »

I agree, the whole problem stems from LW change to fire, in how it completely disables the target. Anything that can do that will always be really, really good.

Yes, reverting back to vanilla, and in that case, maybe give them more AOE, since they don't disable anymore. This would leave the Freezing Grenade as the only way to guarantee control (other than stuff like Stasis).
LordYanaek
Posts: 940
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:34 pm

Re: Fire Grenade Tunning

Post by LordYanaek »

osiyeza wrote: Just adding a RNG to a OP item is not a wise balance choice, so if you are lucky you with an OP item and if you are not you get an useless one.
While that's exactly my point of view, this subject have been discussed ad-nausea as soon as the change was announced so there's not much point discussing it again. If you want to mod it for your own use (or better yet, to release a mod), you should probably discuss it in the "Modding log War" sub.

Otherwise, just consider it a strong direct damage item (it was never meant to be a CC tool - it just turned out to be one) if you can get it before it's outclassed by other, re-usable direct damage. If you get an early proving ground it can come quite early in the campaign, requiring only Officer Autopsy and Officer Corpses IIRC.
Noober
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:47 am

Re: Fire Grenade Tunning

Post by Noober »

LordYanaek wrote:
osiyeza wrote: Just adding a RNG to a OP item is not a wise balance choice, so if you are lucky you with an OP item and if you are not you get an useless one.
While that's exactly my point of view, this subject have been discussed ad-nausea as soon as the change was announced so there's not much point discussing it again. If you want to mod it for your own use (or better yet, to release a mod), you should probably discuss it in the "Modding log War" sub.
Could you please advise an easy but reliable way to eliminate % chance for fire grenade as ini doesn't contain flame chance?
It's starting to hurt me as official 75% is not 75% in practice. I'ts like 50/50 which is not an option at all.

It's like burning effect on mk 3 sword which is officially 50% but in reality - 20-25% (in my last 1.4 compaign I was lucky to reach mk3 sword in mid august and made 4 of them by mid sep so I had like 100 hits by end of dec - only 24 ended up with burning effect).
LordYanaek
Posts: 940
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:34 pm

Re: Fire Grenade Tunning

Post by LordYanaek »

Noober wrote: Could you please advise an easy but reliable way to eliminate % chance for fire grenade as ini doesn't contain flame chance?
XComLW_Overhaul.ini
Line 400 & 401

Code: Select all

FIREBOMB_FIRE_APPLY_CHANCE=75
FIREBOMB_2_FIRE_APPLY_CHANCE=85
It's starting to hurt me as official 75% is not 75% in practice. I'ts like 50/50 which is not an option at all.

It's like burning effect on mk 3 sword which is officially 50% but in reality - 20-25% (in my last 1.4 compaign I was lucky to reach mk3 sword in mid august and made 4 of them by mid sep so I had like 100 hits by end of dec - only 24 ended up with burning effect).
Beware of confirmation bias. Unless you precisely note use and the result over a large sample size it doesn't prove much. There have been a lot of discussion about the XCOM2 RNG giving abnormal results but as far as i know, nobody ever managed to really prove it's anything but a wrong feeling because we tend to remember what doesn't work "as expected" (or rather as hoped) more that what worked in out favor.

Re : swords. You didn't count hits on fire immune enemies did you? 100 hits isn't a large enough sample to conclude anything but that's a pretty large difference. I never bothered keeping notes so i can't say anything about it.
Noober
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:47 am

Re: Fire Grenade Tunning

Post by Noober »

LordYanaek wrote:
Noober wrote: Could you please advise an easy but reliable way to eliminate % chance for fire grenade as ini doesn't contain flame chance?
XComLW_Overhaul.ini
Line 400 & 401

Code: Select all

FIREBOMB_FIRE_APPLY_CHANCE=75
FIREBOMB_2_FIRE_APPLY_CHANCE=85
It's starting to hurt me as official 75% is not 75% in practice. I'ts like 50/50 which is not an option at all.

It's like burning effect on mk 3 sword which is officially 50% but in reality - 20-25% (in my last 1.4 compaign I was lucky to reach mk3 sword in mid august and made 4 of them by mid sep so I had like 100 hits by end of dec - only 24 ended up with burning effect).
Beware of confirmation bias. Unless you precisely note use and the result over a large sample size it doesn't prove much. There have been a lot of discussion about the XCOM2 RNG giving abnormal results but as far as i know, nobody ever managed to really prove it's anything but a wrong feeling because we tend to remember what doesn't work "as expected" (or rather as hoped) more that what worked in out favor.

Re : swords. You didn't count hits on fire immune enemies did you? 100 hits isn't a large enough sample to conclude anything but that's a pretty large difference. I never bothered keeping notes so i can't say anything about it.
Thank you very much - I tried to find it in the wrong file.

Regarding swords - yes I counted all hits including those on codecis who is immune to fire.
But those un-burning had little to no effect on my play as I consider mk3 sword as an upgrade to the regular sword - not a CC tool.
Can't say anything about dragon round as I prefere to spend those rare corpses on MK3 gantlets.
LordYanaek
Posts: 940
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:34 pm

Re: Fire Grenade Tunning

Post by LordYanaek »

I've used a few Dragon Rounds in my last LW2 campaign, giving them to OW soldiers as a +1 damage round (against most enemies) that have a chance to apply an additional CC. They work sometimes, not other times. The best part about using them during OW is the counter doesn't tick until the next alien turn but you know from the beginning of your turn who's burning or not so if you can't kill everyone, you know who you can safely ignore.

I didn't kept any note to check whether the numbers are correct or not but i tend to trust XCOMs RNG. All known and proven cases where the game cheated with RNG results have always been in the player's favor (and were removed fro LW2 of course :twisted: ).
Noober
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:47 am

Re: Fire Grenade Tunning

Post by Noober »

From xwynns video I learned that this is most likely the final patch - so I hope it is the final nerf.
Better be so as there are only a very few things left to abuse :-(
JulianSkies
Posts: 301
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Fire Grenade Tunning

Post by JulianSkies »

Noober wrote:From xwynns video I learned that this is most likely the final patch - so I hope it is the final nerf.
Better be so as there are only a very few things left to abuse :-(
I mean, when you put it that way... You might incite them to nerf something else. As long as there as things to abuse there's balancing to be done.
LordYanaek
Posts: 940
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:34 pm

Re: Fire Grenade Tunning

Post by LordYanaek »

I would expect it to be the final patch for the Vanilla version of LW2. If they want to work on a WotC version they can't maintain 2 different mods of that size.

Yes, i totally expect there will be LWotC, no i didn't use a Gremlin to access their secret files, it's pure speculation :lol:
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