suggestions: wotc

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warbrand2
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suggestions: wotc

Post by warbrand2 »

Ok I know these ideas may or may not be crap... most likely crap. but they are ideas and suggestions for if/when LW2 updates to Wotc.



FIrst suggestion.: resistance


add new resistance factions, and expand on the resistance turns in battle.

ideas in this line.

ability to do a resistance siege op, the main example of this would be the advent regenal HQ missions. in this missions you can bring in your full regional resistance memebers as well as the local cell.(idea bellow.) these would move on their own turn like they currently do and make for a much larger scale battle with you having upto 10 resistance members a long with xcom, and the local cell against what ever advent is fielding.

this would be ontop of situations where you get control over some of the resistance members example the faceless missions should have the option of bringing the full cell or only part. (full bring in everyone units over 8 are AI controlled and a max of 15) while part will only bring in 7 resistance members at the most.


resistance cell idea

like the current game the player would have to locate the cells, but unlike the current game the player would have to give them a region to oversee, this would act similar to haven advisers only it would be replacing the havens with a cell HQ. each cell would have their pros and cons per region example the skirmishers would add an aggressive trait to the region which means counter missions and supply raid missions with the local cell are more likely but intel and rescue are less likely.


with this I have 2 new cell ideas


hellbringers
info: some men just want to watch the world burn, and for once said men are on our side. These guys while unstable specialize in shock tactics using c4 and flamethrowers to rip through advents lines. though they are not a large or strong group they sure know how to put on one hell of a fireworks display.

unit type: firestarter
primary: advent flamethrower. (2 ammo, with infinite ammo but 3 turn cooldown per charge[none stacking])
secondary: c4, can be placed like x4 (uses animations) on walls, and vehicles for remote detonation. great for breaching a wall to mow down enemies on the other side or setting up a car bomb to take out an advent patrol

unit focus: area denial, these guys are based around keeping an area out of reach to the enemy with one of their upgrades being scorched earth that allows them to burn the ground when they attack causing burn to anyone that goes through that area.




order of the snake
info: there has always been wack job cults though this one I think takes the cake. these guys worship the vipers like some sort of goddess, or god or what ever. tehy are crazy is what I am trying to say. taking after amazons of teh old world thsi all female cult tends to lash out at advent everywhere they can, and don't ask us how they managed brain wash vipers into playing along with their game.


unit type: dual unit, handler/viper

human
weapon: machine pistol
secondary: throwing ax.
ability: psi link, vipers
info: linked to a single viper if it dies they die and vice versa so be careful that said they have the ability to impart all their actions on their partner and can control their partner in battle.

viper
weapon: anti material rifle. (a sniper that does double damage to objective structures and destroys cover)
secondary: acid spit.
info: these vipers seem to be tamer then the ones we have fought in the past, even so be careful when tehy are around who knows what they are capible of.

unit role: melee and objective. both units focus more on their melee then their main weapon. with the machine pistol being just slightly better then an equal tier pistol in crit, and the m107 being a sniper with less ammo but a higher shred and objective damage. the main point of these two is melee damage and area rush. with the viper being able to bind targets to which there partner will get a 100% crit with their throwing ax (thrown or melee)







idea two: technical rework
info: with the new DLC we have a flamethrower and animations for such a weapon to work properly so with this I think the technicals gauntlet should be replaced with a primary flamethrower that has a mounted rocket launcher.

the changes I am suggesting

technical primary: hellfire rifle
info: a flamethrower made out of an advent flamethrower and some old rpg's.
ammo: 1 (can not overwatch)
secondary rockets: 2 (strapped to both sides)
primary reload: on a 3 turn cool down once it is used. ( to prevent spam)

the replacement: secondary is replaced with rocket tubes allowing you to swap out rocket types as well as add new rockets through the gear. by default their are 3 rocket types.

ballistic: low blast range (Default) high direct damage
HEI: high blast range, explosion lights targets on fire (is a chance)[must research]
HEAT: same as ballistic but shreds 6 armor.






yeah these are just random, sorry if they are crap.
cryptc
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Re: suggestions: wotc

Post by cryptc »

my main suggestions for wotc/lw is just stuff to avoid:

- tired mechanic... infiltration already tries to accomplish what tired does in wotc, if you add it and keep infiltrations, then you will have double mechanics keeping you from using your troops. infiltration is the better of the two imho, since it lets you strategically cancel missions when needed, and is easier to keep people in squads. the tired mechanic seems a bit random how tired two different soldiers become, so in a squad it would mean that you wait until the whole squad isn't tired anymore to use them.

- covert actions... although these will fit perfectly with lw, where when you get a couple injuries in a squad it's a perfect time to send two of the uninjured on a covert op, and the last into officer training or something... but the rewards in unit upgrades seems a bit powerful, making it a tempting way of making super soldiers, I think a better option is having the rewards for units be xp only.

- the new factions... honestly, I'm not sure how to balance these, but atleast not have them as a mandatory unit that carries your squad like it is in vanilla wotc currently...

but I trust pavonis to do the right choices, and make a game they themselves would like to play, my main suggestion is just don't listen to player feedback outside your trusted inner circle... what people think they want and what they actually would play are wildly different things... keep true to the vision and the players will love it
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warbrand2
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Re: suggestions: wotc

Post by warbrand2 »

yeah the hero units are a crutch right now. damn they are OP.

seriously when LW2 updates I personally hope they add more factions but change the heros in a big way. personally think the hero's should be replaced by unique unit classes.

mechanic idea.

replace the heros with unique classes.


examples of ideas, reapers and skermishers.


lets start with the reapers, anyone can be come a reaper its just only the faction can train soldiers to be reapers.
idea: instead of them being hero's tehy are an unique class that you can get two ways, either A by requesting one after doing enough for the faction or B sending one of your soldiers off for reaper training, this woudl be the same for the templars you jsut send or request.


but for the skermishers they are all ex-advent, so I would suggest adding ex-advent as a race type rare and can not be selected by the player(can't custom) you can only get these guys from skermisher missions and they can be base classes but you can also get their unique skermisher class by either requesting or sending an ex-advent soldier to them.



an idea liek this would also allow for more special factions to be added with out causing a hero unit OP quad event. as tehy are jsut a different class. (hell my ideas above can easily be reworked for that)
WarChicken
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Re: suggestions: wotc

Post by WarChicken »

To be honest, I don't think all the Heroes are overpowered. They are meant to be more powerful than your standard soldier, and that they are. Well, Maybe with the exception of the skirmisher, who might be a little OP.

The Reapers have this nice new concealment mechanic and are really fast, but their Rifle, while looking sniper-ish, doesn't have the same power as a real sniper rifle (that *would* be OP since it also only needs one AP to fire). The Claymore... Either I'm too dumb to use it right or it is really underwhelming.

The Templar guy... I like the Idea behind it, but I can't seem to load up his abilities. Maybe I just strategically misplace him, but he needs someone - at least in the beginning of a mission, who pre-injures his enemies. Also Mutons. He's really, really bad against Mutons, because meleeing them is suicide and his little machine pistol is a joke against them. Speaking of that Machine Pistol... you can finish already injured "leftovers" with that, just like with a snipers Pistol, but you'd rather hit those with your Melee to load up your Abilities. So most of the time this thing is used, it's against Mutons, who laugh at its damage output. So, all in all, while I like the concept of a primary-Melee Unit with Psi-aspects, I prefer the Ranger here with his Shotgun.

What would I do to integrate those into a (hopefully coming) LW-WOTC?

I think I'd not change the Skirmisher much. Maybe nerf the gunplay somewhat. He can be the Jack of all trades, because right now, he is and he's too good at everything. As a Jack of all trades he should'nt be too good at everything, but rather be able to do everything so-so, without excelling too much at anything. Maybe nerf that grappling Abilities somewhat, too.
Of Cause the Perks need to be reevaluated and rebalanced and all, but Pavonis got this.

I'd change only one thing (besides re-Perking) about the Templar and that is to not end turn when he uses his machinepistol with his first action. Doing so, he can soften his enemies before striking 'em down with his Psi-Blades. If the enemies are positioned in his favor. That is all.

I'd also not change the Reaper too much either. Maybe make the Claymore useful. I see this guy get really strong with the tactical supressors mod, but that shouldn't be Pavonis concern.

I sure Hope there will be a WotC Edition of Long War 2. And if there will, I'm looking forward to see, what Pavonis will make of the new skill system and Skilltrees.
Being able to even more specialise the troops would be alot of fun.
Dwarfling
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Re: suggestions: wotc

Post by Dwarfling »

All I know is that it's going to be a pain in the behind for Pavonis if they have to develop separately for WotC and the base game. If they decide to go all-in for WotC then they screw over the people that don't want to purchase WotC. If they don't want to mod for WotC then we won't have the juicy optimization changes for LW2. :?
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warbrand2
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Re: suggestions: wotc

Post by warbrand2 »

most likely they will do what they did for xcom, that is leave the old base game one at a stable state and expand towards the current.
Psieye
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Re: suggestions: wotc

Post by Psieye »

WarChicken wrote: The Reapers have this nice new concealment mechanic and are really fast, but their Rifle, while looking sniper-ish, doesn't have the same power as a real sniper rifle (that *would* be OP since it also only needs one AP to fire). The Claymore... Either I'm too dumb to use it right or it is really underwhelming.
Reapers reduce enemy detection range to 1 while in super-concealment (Shadow). I don't care what their weapons are, they are ridiculously OP. The Claymore is great for letting a pistol shred Mec armour - the Reaper just camps in stealth and when a Mec shows up, throws the Claymore and keeps camping in Shadow. Or you know, just frag the Claymore for a double explosion.

Anyway, the other modders note that WotC has radically changed so much. I don't hope for a quick turnaround for LW2-WotC.
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WarChicken
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Re: suggestions: wotc

Post by WarChicken »

Psieye wrote:Anyway, the other modders note that WotC has radically changed so much. I don't hope for a quick turnaround for LW2-WotC.
I agree. If they didn't have a pre-Release version for a long time, this is going to take quite some time.
I still hope Pavonis is up for it because I'm willing to wait. Actually I am sure to come back to WotC when LW comes out for it, whatever I'm going to be playing at the time.
JM01
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Re: suggestions: wotc

Post by JM01 »

WarChicken wrote:To be honest, I don't think all the Heroes are overpowered. They are meant to be more powerful than your
The Reapers have this nice new concealment mechanic and are really fast, but their Rifle, while looking sniper-ish, doesn't have the same power as a real sniper rifle (that *would* be OP since it also only needs one AP to fire). The Claymore... Either I'm too dumb to use it right or it is really underwhelming.
Use the claymore and then throw a grenade at the claymore. Will deal damage for both and usually kills everything in the pod unless it has over 20 hp. If they are sitting next to a car or barrel or one of the units in the pod is a purifier then they will be hit by 3 explosives which usually does 15 damage minimum to everyone in the pod. If anything claymores are hilariously overpowered. They might need to make it break concealment in order to balance it. Right now that basically guarantees that whatever pod gets hit with that will die.
WarChicken
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Re: suggestions: wotc

Post by WarChicken »

JM01 wrote:Use the claymore and then throw a grenade at the claymore. Will deal damage for both and usually kills everything in the pod unless it has over 20 hp. If they are sitting next to a car or barrel or one of the units in the pod is a purifier then they will be hit by 3 explosives which usually does 15 damage minimum to everyone in the pod. If anything claymores are hilariously overpowered. They might need to make it break concealment in order to balance it. Right now that basically guarantees that whatever pod gets hit with that will die.
Now if you put it that way, that indeed sounds really powerful and I seem to have indeed been too dumb to use it.
I actually thought it was used like a proximity mine and explode when enemy units come near it. I then was rather underwhelmed when an enemy mech walked just one tile past it without it triggering.
So you have to trigger it by shooting it or by tossing a grenade on it, if you don't have the remote detonation perk for it.
And I didn't even think about triggering it with another explosive and thought it was lame. Seems like I'm a real strategy nerd... not.
sarge945
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Re: suggestions: wotc

Post by sarge945 »

I think the tired mechanic could still fit in if it's changed to work in a different way.

I'm thinking it should be reserved only for soldiers they go out on covert Ops. Right now covert Ops seem far too good in terms of the risk vs reward, and having to sickbay a soldier for a few days or risk a negative trait seems like a better risk than the current "they either get wounded or nothing happens" black and white system.

The nice thing about this is that it would give a nice but of strategic depth. You can send your main troops out and give them upgrades, but they will be out of action for a while (few days on mission plus few days resting) or you can risk giving them negative traits if you really need them on an important mission right now.



For the hero classes, I think a balanced approach would be to include an upkeep cost associated with keeping them on missions. This could be explained by stating that they require special equipment to be mobilised, and that could cost supplies and manpower. Having an overpowered unit would be awesome in a mission, but if it costs me 10-15 supplies each time, I'm definitely going to think twice about using them on every mission and relying on them to carry me on all but the hardest missions.
Swiftless
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Re: suggestions: wotc

Post by Swiftless »

sarge945 wrote:
For the hero classes, I think a balanced approach would be to include an upkeep cost associated with keeping them on missions. This could be explained by stating that they require special equipment to be mobilised, and that could cost supplies and manpower. Having an overpowered unit would be awesome in a mission, but if it costs me 10-15 supplies each time, I'm definitely going to think twice about using them on every mission and relying on them to carry me on all but the hardest missions.

Total pie-in-the-sky sorts of complaint on my side and a mechanic that I think was sorely missed is the idea of limited use "big boom" buttons. I kind of think of them like the artillery/aerial strikes from Call of Duty. In my mind I could see some fun times by being able to drop in a single use mech from the dropship or even having a dropship side door gunner that could lay down some heavy strafing fire. While the faction flavor is cool I agree that they seem OP and I would have preferred more nuke button abilities like this and fold some of the new faction mechanics into the standard XCOM soldier. I guess a little bit more like what EW did with genetics and cybernetics.
JM01
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Re: suggestions: wotc

Post by JM01 »

WarChicken wrote:
JM01 wrote:Use the claymore and then throw a grenade at the claymore. Will deal damage for both and usually kills everything in the pod unless it has over 20 hp. If they are sitting next to a car or barrel or one of the units in the pod is a purifier then they will be hit by 3 explosives which usually does 15 damage minimum to everyone in the pod. If anything claymores are hilariously overpowered. They might need to make it break concealment in order to balance it. Right now that basically guarantees that whatever pod gets hit with that will die.
Now if you put it that way, that indeed sounds really powerful and I seem to have indeed been too dumb to use it.
I actually thought it was used like a proximity mine and explode when enemy units come near it. I then was rather underwhelmed when an enemy mech walked just one tile past it without it triggering.
So you have to trigger it by shooting it or by tossing a grenade on it, if you don't have the remote detonation perk for it.
And I didn't even think about triggering it with another explosive and thought it was lame. Seems like I'm a real strategy nerd... not.
This actually gets even more ridiculous because you can actually get a perk with the reaper to give them a utility slot and have them equip a proximity mine so you can just throw both with your reaper, grenade the claymore and then watch whatever survived the claymore/grenade combo die to the mine.

Also reapers have an ability called banish that lets them takes as many shots on a target as ammo they have left so if you give your reaper a superior expanded mag and they have a full clip, that is 6 shots they take on 1 target. Given the stage they get this ability you will likely have at least mag or beam weapons. In that case your rifle will be doing either 4 to 5 damage minimum per shot which is a minimum of 24 and a max of 30, that is an insane amount of damage for just 1 unit.

All in all I think reapers are wayyyyy too powerful right now, I honestly feel like they are an auto win unit.
WarChicken
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Re: suggestions: wotc

Post by WarChicken »

JM01 wrote:This actually gets even more ridiculous because you can actually get a perk with the reaper to give them a utility slot and have them equip a proximity mine so you can just throw both with your reaper, grenade the claymore and then watch whatever survived the claymore/grenade combo die to the mine.

Also reapers have an ability called banish that lets them takes as many shots on a target as ammo they have left so if you give your reaper a superior expanded mag and they have a full clip, that is 6 shots they take on 1 target. Given the stage they get this ability you will likely have at least mag or beam weapons. In that case your rifle will be doing either 4 to 5 damage minimum per shot which is a minimum of 24 and a max of 30, that is an insane amount of damage for just 1 unit.

All in all I think reapers are wayyyyy too powerful right now, I honestly feel like they are an auto win unit.
I just had Banish fail on me. I used it on a Sectopod from quite far. Shot, missed, and my Reaper didn't take the other shots, so the chain is broken, if you miss a shot. But I agree, Banish is VERY powerful. I actually just ranked him up to Colonel, and there is a Perk enhancing Banish even further - when the first enemy dies, the Reaper will continue to empty his magazine on the next enemy.
Wasn't able to use it, yet, so I cant say, if the AI chooses said next enemy or if the game lets you choose. This is definitely a killer, especially if you have more than one reaper in your ranks (I got two presently).

Edit: I just tested it - the AI decides which enemy will be targeted after the first is down.

On the other hand, I don't think that it is an auto-win unit. It's very powerful, agreed, but there are many enemies and (most of the time) only one reaper. He does make the whole game a LOT easier, tho. I'm going to put him against the (yep, only one left in my game) Chosen the next time he shows up and see, how banish works against him :P It's going to be a slaughter.
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