Pavonis Interactive Forums

Come on guys, you are wonderful, but please release whatever ya got for 1.5 soon.

Stop killing my rookies.

I am 100% certain they are specifically waiting until after the expansion because release 1.5 too close just means they're going to have to readjust everything right after.

JulianSkies wrote:I am 100% certain they are specifically waiting until after the expansion because release 1.5 too close just means they're going to have to readjust everything right after.

I seriously doubt that. Even thought JL still havn't confirmed or rejected any of our wild guesses about LW2 being ported to WotC, he specifically said that 1.5 will not be "Long War of the Chosen".
It will be released when it's ready as 1.3 was (1.4 was more a hotfix).

And yes, stop killing our rookies!

LordYanaek wrote:

JulianSkies wrote:I am 100% certain they are specifically waiting until after the expansion because release 1.5 too close just means they're going to have to readjust everything right after.

I seriously doubt that. Even thought JL still havn't confirmed or rejected any of our wild guesses about LW2 being ported to WotC, he specifically said that 1.5 will not be "Long War of the Chosen".
It will be released when it's ready as 1.3 was (1.4 was more a hotfix).

And yes, stop killing our rookies!

I don't even mean making a 'Long War of the Chosen', no. It's just that the DLC is coming along with bigger updates, bigger updates break mods hardcore. I know they're wise enough to know LW2's going to just fall apart when WotC comes out, they're already going to have to scramble just to restore things to current state, might as well delay all updates to that time as well.

JulianSkies wrote: I am 100% certain they are specifically waiting until after the expansion because release 1.5 too close just means they're going to have to readjust everything right after.

They're going to keep readjusting things right after, anyway. As soon as they released 1.1, they began working on fixes and balance changes for 1.2. As soon as they released 1.2, they began working on 1.3. To the point that JL usually posts the next patch's bug fix list on the same day that he announces the release of the new patch. LW2 is very much a work in progress, the release of the WOTC expansion does not change that. It just gives them that much more to look at for whichever patch version they're working on when it comes out.

LordYanaek wrote: I seriously doubt that. Even thought JL still havn't confirmed or rejected any of our wild guesses about LW2 being ported to WotC, he specifically said that 1.5 will not be "Long War of the Chosen".
It will be released when it's ready as 1.3 was (1.4 was more a hotfix).

Agreed, 1.5 will be released when it's ready and it will specifically NOT support the expansion. Any compatibility between the two will be coincidental.

I wouldn't be surprised if they divert a few resources to analyzing ex-pack changes while the majority of the team continues working on patches for vanilla, as usual. So, 1.6 and 1.7 will probably not support WOTC, either. (Although that's just speculation on my part.) The version of LW2 that supports WOTC will probably come as "version 2.0" -- whenever it's ready -- and may even drop unannounced while the vanilla patches keep coming regularly up until it does.

JulianSkies wrote: I don't even mean making a 'Long War of the Chosen', no. It's just that the DLC is coming along with bigger updates, bigger updates break mods hardcore. I know they're wise enough to know LW2's going to just fall apart when WotC comes out, they're already going to have to scramble just to restore things to current state, might as well delay all updates to that time as well.

Or they could just say "sorry, LW2 doesn't support WOTC at this time. Please uninstall WOTC if you want to continue using LW2."

Steve-O wrote:

JulianSkies wrote: I don't even mean making a 'Long War of the Chosen', no. It's just that the DLC is coming along with bigger updates, bigger updates break mods hardcore. I know they're wise enough to know LW2's going to just fall apart when WotC comes out, they're already going to have to scramble just to restore things to current state, might as well delay all updates to that time as well.

Or they could just say "sorry, LW2 doesn't support WOTC at this time. Please uninstall WOTC if you want to continue using LW2."

I was more thinking about changes that are straight out in the base game. Say, Firaxis changes how some of the mod scripting words in order to prevent the Under Avenger Bug from appearing by fixing the damned memory leak. Oops, there goes nearly every single mod down the drain for a while until people readjust, there's no uninstalling anything either because base game update.

Those things happen (hell i've been following Factorio and you see it happen there now and then at the very least the devs there are kind enough to warn "This next update is going to break mods, please be aware"), and I in fact expect them to happen at some point.

Steve-O wrote: Or they could just say "sorry, LW2 doesn't support WOTC at this time. Please uninstall WOTC if you want to continue using LW2."

If the WOTC Addon is done the way EW was in XCOM1, they won't even have to, since you could choose to just play the base game then.

WarChicken wrote:

Steve-O wrote: Or they could just say "sorry, LW2 doesn't support WOTC at this time. Please uninstall WOTC if you want to continue using LW2."

If the WOTC Addon is done the way EW was in XCOM1, they won't even have to, since you could choose to just play the base game then.

WOTC is bringing a ton of new features, so it's a bit different but I agree that it will probably be an option you activate or not.

Still that doesn't mean that this will be two applications, so core game will get a big patch at WOTC release and Steam won't let you the choice but the last version. So Firaxis and Pavonis should have anticipate it. Not LW2 WoTC but LW2 compatibility because LW2 is no common mod but clearly one partially endorsed or supported by Firaxis.

EDIT: Some indie dev would have manage it by using "beta" versions. And use some beta version in Steam like last version before WOTC release and not supported but available. But it's harder for a more pro dev like Firaxis because it's their interest that mods hurry the cleaning with compatibility with new version. What's surprising is that nothing was anticipated for LW2.

Zork wrote:
WOTC is bringing a ton of new features, so it's a bit different but I agree that it will probably be an option you activate or not.

Still that doesn't mean that this will be two applications, so core game will get a big patch at WOTC release and Steam won't let you the choice but the last version. So Firaxis and Pavonis should have anticipate it. Not LW2 WoTC but LW2 compatibility because LW2 is no common mod but clearly one partially endorsed or supported by Firaxis.

EDIT: Some indie dev would have manage it by using "beta" versions. And use some beta version in Steam like last version before WOTC release and not supported but available. But it's harder for a more pro dev like Firaxis because it's their interest that mods hurry the cleaning with compatibility with new version. What's surprising is that nothing was anticipated for LW2.

In the end, all of this is mere speculation. I can't see a real separation in XCOM:EU/EW in the folder structure, but in the Civilization series the addons mostly ARE indeed seperate games (with common cores). We will see if LW2 will still be playable once WOTC hits. I guess we won't have any other chance than just wait and see.

WarChicken wrote:

Zork wrote:
WOTC is bringing a ton of new features, so it's a bit different but I agree that it will probably be an option you activate or not.

Still that doesn't mean that this will be two applications, so core game will get a big patch at WOTC release and Steam won't let you the choice but the last version. So Firaxis and Pavonis should have anticipate it. Not LW2 WoTC but LW2 compatibility because LW2 is no common mod but clearly one partially endorsed or supported by Firaxis.

EDIT: Some indie dev would have manage it by using "beta" versions. And use some beta version in Steam like last version before WOTC release and not supported but available. But it's harder for a more pro dev like Firaxis because it's their interest that mods hurry the cleaning with compatibility with new version. What's surprising is that nothing was anticipated for LW2.

In the end, all of this is mere speculation. I can't see a real separation in XCOM:EU/EW in the folder structure, but in the Civilization series the addons mostly ARE indeed seperate games (with common cores). We will see if LW2 will still be playable once WOTC hits. I guess we won't have any other chance than just wait and see.

Sure we can't know, but I see few chance it happens, support multiples versions of the game for mods will be a total garbage with Steam Workshop so I hardly see this happen or it will be a big mistake.

It's right the same problem for having a patch only included in the new version with WOTC, such approach will lead to two versions of the game and a total nightmare with Steam Workshop.

In my opinion either Fireaxis have identified LW2 involves too few players but that seems hardly the case with the number of subscriptions, and then hope Pavonis will fix asap any problems. Either they'll provide a pre version to Pavonis to ensure they check and prepare the problems of compatibility at WOTC release. Well at least it's what should have been done, ha ha.

Zork wrote: In my opinion either Fireaxis have identified LW2 involves too few players but that seems hardly the case with the number of subscriptions, and then hope Pavonis will fix asap any problems. Either they'll provide a pre version to Pavonis to ensure they check and prepare the problems of compatibility at WOTC release. Well at least it's what should have been done, ha ha.

My understanding is that Firaxis and Pavonis have been comparing notes closely to make sure they don't both do the same thing in extending the game. Of course, Pavonis can't really comment on this in detail, due to NDAs and what-not, but JL has said a few things that make it clear there is at least one line of communication between them. Remember that Long War 2 (unlike it's predecessor) was officially commissioned by Firaxis. I don't think Firaxis is at all ignorant of how many people like the Long War and are using it.

There will more than likely be some bumps in the road after WOTC comes out, but I think Pavonis will smooth it out - at least as far as the core game is concerned - relatively quickly. By which I mean that playing LW2 with WOTC disabled (via some launch menu like EU/EW) or uninstalled (unchecked on the Steam DLC menu) should work fine, after a patch or two, but trying to play WITH WOTC will likely not be possible in the near future.

Steve-O wrote:

Zork wrote: Remember that Long War 2 (unlike it's predecessor) was officially commissioned by Firaxis. I don't think Firaxis is at all ignorant of how many people like the Long War and are using it..

LW2 was commissioned by 2K not Firaxis. Other than being friendly, and sharing programming support between teams, there is no official connection between the developers.

My bad

Steve-O wrote:My bad

No worries, it is a common misconception.

To answer the initial question from @infidel901, the testers are still working with the latest version of 1.5, so it will be released when JL is satisfied that we've ensured that it is as "bug free" as humanly possible. As you can see from the change log: http://www.pavonisinteractive.com/phpBB ... 15&t=26052 there are a lot of changes, and it can take the testers time to get to the mid/late game, and under a variety of scenarios (and all difficulty levels), to make sure that every change gets covered at least once.

deaconivory wrote:

Steve-O wrote:My bad

No worries, it is a common misconception.

To answer the initial question from @infidel901, the testers are still working with the latest version of 1.5, so it will be released when JL is satisfied that we've ensured that it is as "bug free" as humanly possible. As you can see from the change log: http://www.pavonisinteractive.com/phpBB ... 15&t=26052 there are a lot of changes, and it can take the testers time to get to the mid/late game, and under a variety of scenarios (and all difficulty levels), to make sure that every change gets covered at least once.

Side note: thanks for being thorough . . . I'm sure I'm not the only one that wishes other developers showed as much care.