Pavonis Interactive Forums

Thatsxcombaby wrote:I checked out the Steam Workshop and I'm seeing a decent number of mods already updated to support War of the Chosen! Maybe this is a good sign that it won't be that difficult for the Long War 2 team to make it compatible with WoTC.......atleast I hope anyways.

Unfortunately you can't compare minor mods to something as overhaul-ish as long war. Balancing alone will take loads of time, and we're not even yet talking about new expansion-specific implementations pavonis no doubt have planned for wotc just as they did for the main game, compatibility with main long war features, maybe some art assets they need...
Dude. This will take quite some time even if they have already started, so better get comfortable with what you got right now

I see it like with Pilllars 1 and 2... I'm ready to wait years if that means I get a fricking awesome game in the end that lasts me decades.

8wayz wrote:Unless you haven't made notice of it, 2K's strategy is actually great this time around compared to Xcom 1.

They commission a great mod that has devoted followers and make it so it comes out about an year after the original game and just after the Steam winter sale. Then 6 months later, while everyone is playing a lot of Long War 2, they announce a new expansion. About 8 months after the launch of Long War comes a huge expansion.

And a day or two before the official launch of the expansion comes a great patch for Long War 2. Seems like they want to make sure that both players who can afford the new expansions and those who would like to wait are going to be playing Xcom2.

I am expecting a version of Long War 2 for War of the Chosen sometime in February next year, 6 months from now. They will probably also receive some support from Firaxis to make everything work smooth on the technical side.

I actually agree with your conclusion completely, except to point out that JL just stated that their contract with 2K did not extend to balance and gameplay changes to LW2 post release. Given this, it seems unlikely to me that 2K had any say in the timing of the 1.5 release.

This has been an informative and enjoyable discussion, the only other thing I'd like to add is that you should consider buying WOTC even if LW2 will never be ported to it, Firaxis seems to have done a wonderful job and there are several things that just increase the overall atmosphere of the game. Also 2K/Firaxis did fully fund the development of Long War 2 and that decision alone merits support from those that are fans of Long War 2 and Pavonis, I think JL will agree with that.

Looking forward to whatever comes next!

To me there's no question there's dev work to integrate lw2 with wotc.

If there wasn't pavonis wouldn't be contracturaly obligated to stay silent. There would be no contract to silence them. The fact they can't say anything is pretty much proof there's an NDA, and if there's an NDA then there's development.

Ptaco wrote:To me there's no question there's dev work to integrate lw2 with wotc.

If there wasn't pavonis wouldn't be contracturaly obligated to stay silent. There would be no contract to silence them. The fact they can't say anything is pretty much proof there's an NDA, and if there's an NDA then there's development.

I can think of plenty of developers who don't need an NDA to keep silent. Sometimes they just have nothing to say. Apparently it is their "thing".

Is there a contract between Pavonis and Firaxis? I never knew it to be anything official. If it was, it seems odd that a lot of the new content for WotC is working in a direction opposite to what Pavonis was making. Why would they spend time developing a really shitty bondmate system when Pavonis had already developed a squad system that was 100x better? Or spend time implementing a shitty fatigue system (tired state only lasts for a day or two) when the infiltration system is 100x better?

I do like a lot of what Firaxis has done. The covert ops, factions, sitreps, lost, ability point system, resistance orders, research breakthroughs and Chosen are all really cool.

I really do hope that there is an update of LW2 for it, but it has been a long time with "nothing to announce".

If Xcom Enemy Within changed a lot things in the Vanilla Game and was compatible with Long War, this expansion in Xcom 2 must work too, they know that a lot of people are waiting (like me) for War of the Chosen to be integrated into the great mod to buy it, so this would benefit both, Pavonis and Firaxxis. I hope will come true.


No Long War no Fun
No Pain no Gain (Legend Ironman)

If I remember correctly, it took us months to get Long War EU working with EW -- and in a lot of ways we started from scratch on a technical level.

johnnylump wrote:If I remember correctly, it took us months to get Long War EU working with EW -- and in a lot of ways we started from scratch on a technical level.

As I recall, these were also 2 separate mods which were not interchangeable -- ie LW for EW was not backwards compatible for EU. In addition, LW for EW was pretty big leap in terms of advancement and scope compared with the original. Nostalgia ...

johnnylump wrote:... Anyway, sorry there's still nothing to say on the main topic of this thread.

LOL

Great post! I'm glad you guys and gals are getting paid for this now.

I think it would be too much to ask the devs of wotc to consider Long war Problems and compatibility when developing.
It's great that firaxis are supporting mods and especially LW like they do, but they really can't direct development of additional Content with LW Goals in mind, can they? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, LW devs. But the new Content is the real meat and main priority for firaxis, and then Comes modding, not the other way around.

I'm enjoying WotC, but I really hope to see a Long War of the Chosen some time

johnnylump wrote:If I remember correctly, it took us months to get Long War EU working with EW -- and in a lot of ways we started from scratch on a technical level.

Even if it was simple or you had the advantage of a head start there's likely a marketing aspect to take into consideration. LW2.5 should come out on a good sales window after interest in vanilla starts to wane.

I have just registered to say that I have immensely enjoyed my playthrough through the first Long War. I think it took me around 2 years to finish that playthrough (with rather long breaks), and I finished it just in time for the release of WotC for XCOM 2.

I was really hoping to play XCOM 2 + WotC + Long War 2 for an ultimate XCOM experience, and was saddened to see that Long War 2 was not compatible with WotC on its release. I was deciding whether I should wait for Long War 2 or give vanilla WotC a try, and, after reading this very thread, I have come to the conclusion that the wait could last multiple months, and I could just start a second playthrough at that time, just like I did with the first XCOM.

I'm enjoying WotC so far, but I'm still hoping it'll get a Long War treatment, even if it hasn't been officially announced yet. You have to admit, "Long War of the Chosen" has a nice ring to it.

The bottom line is, I think Long War is a very great mod, and I wish it was developed as a part of the main game so that I wouldn't have to play without it.

"Nothing to announce" is actually a promising (non)-announcement. I take this to mean discussions are happening and/or work is underway between Pavonis and 2K, but Pavonis is not cleared to share about it yet.

If nothing were going on, the response would probably be more direct, i.e. "no, we're not involved in any additional mods with 2K at this time".

So it's probably just a matter of time.

It means Pavonis has/had interest in doing something additional.

Whether discussions continued or were productive or some work started isn't known.

Pavonis is a small and will likely keep their options open even if negotiations with 2K haven't been promising so far.

Dlareh wrote:It means Pavonis has/had interest in doing something additional.

Whether discussions continued or were productive or some work started isn't known.

Pavonis is a small and will likely keep their options open even if negotiations with 2K haven't been promising so far.

Jake Solomon wants there to be a Long War 2 Mod just as much as everyone else does. I'm confident they will make it happen.

Having it for pre-expansion, but not post, would just be utterly lame, and a waste of everything that has been built thus far. Remember, JL said that Long War ideas were evaluated for idea conflicts not just for initial release, but for DLC as well.

Something would have really had to go off the rails for an update to LW2 not to happen.

marceror wrote:

Dlareh wrote:It means Pavonis has/had interest in doing something additional.

Whether discussions continued or were productive or some work started isn't known.

Pavonis is a small and will likely keep their options open even if negotiations with 2K haven't been promising so far.

Jake Solomon wants there to be a Long War 2 Mod just as much as everyone else does. I'm confident they will make it happen.

Having it for pre-expansion, but not post, would just be utterly lame, and a waste of everything that has been built thus far. Remember, JL said that Long War ideas were evaluated for idea conflicts not just for initial release, but for DLC as well.

Something would have really had to go off the rails for an update to LW2 not to happen.

When/where did JL say that? I'm curious, that's a bit exciting.

In page 1 of this thread. Quote below for convenience sake:

johnnylump wrote:I'd never make the claim that FXS picks up design cues or mechanics from us. Back before XCOM 2 was released and we were pitching LW2, they reviewed our plans against theirs to make sure we weren't overlapping with any of the DLC ... and we weren't. They have been fantastic to us all the way through, but we have designed independently of them and they of us. It's a testament to the strength of the core squad combat design and story of XCOM that we can take their product and riff on it for a meaningfully different experience.

For what it's worth, some of the Squad Cohesion code was in vanilla XCOM 2. Even in EU there was an enum in the code that suggested they had thought about some kind of fatigue mechanic, but they never used it. There was also a line that suggested they wanted a "Skyranger mortar" but they never used that either.

One could argue that DLC and WoTC are thought of as two separate things. There might very well be overlap with WoTC.

rfriar wrote:One could argue that DLC and WoTC are thought of as two separate things. There might very well be overlap with WoTC.

Yeah. You could consider fatigue and infiltration as overlap right there. I'm excited to see how they're going to deal with this once they announce LW2 support for the expansion. A mixed system would be awesome and as hot as the devil's teats. If you balance it right, you can have both.
For example, there could be research or upgrades or abilities with cooldown that let you un-fatigue certain soldiers... the theoretical possibilities are endless.

I'm most excited at how they'll handle The Chosen and the factions. Being able to have all three faction soldiers is overkill, and The Chosen could use some buffing, particularly in the AI department. I wrote up a post on here/Reddit about making them more of a threat, nothing so far.

The Covert Action system is an excellent GUI for handling infiltration; could present interesting new branching off points.

And how will Pavonis handle The Lost? Will they spread on the Geoscape, claiming territory?

So many new avenues to play around in; I can't wait.

I've seen a lot of posting about how the faction heroes are overpowered for LW2, but I don't think I agree in general. Yes, they're very powerful - the Skirmisher is like a supercharged Ranger, the Templar is like a supercharged Shinobi, the Reaper is like a supercharged Shinobi/Sharpshooter hybrid... but consider that there's only one of them (two so I hear, but I've never been able to recruit a second).
You can build your entire strategy around a single soldier or combination, but that's true for base LW2 classes too.
A regular soldier with some good AWC rolls can pretty much match the capabilities of a Skirmisher or Templar, and only the Reaper is really overpowered in the stealth department, but with a little tweaking that can be fixed. Replace one of your Rangers with a Skirmisher, and so on, and you might not ever even notice.
Considering that there's only ever going to be one (or two) of each, and that infiltration (or infiltration+fatigue) means you will not have them all available all the time, and they can't wear ruler armors, EXO suits, etc. I think they're a nice wildcard but of limited general utility.
It's tough to tell for sure though without actually having them in LW2. I might be completely off base, but that's just how it appears to me right now.
That Reaper's stealth needs to go, though.

Similarly, I don't see that the soldier bond system is anything much to worry about. It's not really overpowered or underpowered. LW2 squad mechanics are one thing, and maybe it's just my personal playstyle but I've gotten only limited use out of giving actions from one teammate to another. Maybe I just haven't been paying attention, but I haven't even really noticed any of the other perks of bonding. The only other thing I really notice when I play is soldiers going berserk when a bondmate dies.

Bonding at level 2 gives you +15 aim at a target that is attacking or has attacked one of your bondmates. I have a Reaper + Sharpshooter duo and the Sharpshooter regularly gets +15 aim due to this.

In general those special soldiers are mostly to be used on key missions and against the Chosen (as they get more damage against each one of them). Other than that, their utility mostly lies in giving you access to their resistance faction, which is the key part of managing a War of the Chosen campaign.

Firaxis can have my WOTC money when LW2 has a compatibility announcement.
No LW2. No point in getting WOTC.

I have to agree. I don't like the thought of picking one or the other every time I play