1.3 Changelog got updated.

Thrair
Long War 2 Crew
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Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:37 am

1.3 Changelog got updated.

Postby Thrair » Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:30 am

Looks like JL's updated the 1.3 changelog.

DISCUSSION TIME!

Also, you know the drill, people. If we ask for release dates, we start having to bury rookies.

PS: Keep it civil, people. Pwetty pwease, with sugar on?

rakoon79
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:03 am

Re: 1.3 Changelog got updated.

Postby rakoon79 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:30 am

As someone who's been translating LW Changelogs in Korean language since LW1 B12, sheer amount of changes makes me feel excited and depressed at the same time. Feeling like getting impulsive and killing dozens of rookies, but I'll practice Traditional Ethereal Yoga to calm my mind

Antigonos
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Re: 1.3 Changelog got updated.

Postby Antigonos » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:41 am

That's what I call a patch note. Firaxis should take example :mrgreen:

wizard1200
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Re: 1.3 Changelog got updated.

Postby wizard1200 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:53 am

Wow ... The changelog is impressive ... Hopefully 1.3 will be released soon :)

"Stiletto, Flechette and Needle Rounds do a base +1 damage and 1 more damage to specific targets.":
They should inflict 2 points of damage against specific targets to make them more useful.

"[...] Conceal now ends your turn when used.":
Conceal should have no charges and a cooldown of 3 turns that starts when the character breaks concealment or activates conceal to make it an interesting MSGT perk and to make Shadowstrike more useful.

Severian
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Re: 1.3 Changelog got updated.

Postby Severian » Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:50 am

Given the huges changes to Perks, does anyone know what would happen to a 1.2 save game if loaded in 1.3? Will it just break?

deaconivory
Long War 2 Crew
Posts: 167
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Re: 1.3 Changelog got updated.

Postby deaconivory » Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:34 am

Severian wrote:Given the huges changes to Perks, does anyone know what would happen to a 1.2 save game if loaded in 1.3? Will it just break?


I'm testing that now. First pass indicates that it doesn't break the game. Obviously soldier perk trees will need to be respec'd and you will need to destroy and cheat in a new Psi Lab for the new Sci slot change to apply (if that matters to you). It is possible that some other things will be out of balance.

As with most overhaul mods a new campaign is the best option, but I'll report back after I've completed some more missions.

Tuhalu
Posts: 433
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Re: 1.3 Changelog got updated.

Postby Tuhalu » Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:23 pm

It feels like things are moving in a good direction.

  • Liberation missions are getting a little bit easier (one or two less alert levels each), while completing a Tower Mission (free radio relay) and the HQ assault (reliable source of corpses and resources, plus doom reduction) give better rewards. Result: Liberation is an even more attractive goal than before.
  • Hiding does something. The fewer rebels on jobs, the faster vigilance decays in a region. Nice and intuitive.
  • The changes to how retaliations trigger means the late game won't be as absolutely flooded with retaliations as it has been, which will be nice. It will also be far less simple to avoid minor retaliations in the mid-game.
  • Supply Raids and Troop Columns are going to be harder to detect (and less rewarding), but hopefully that's balanced out by more accessible liberations and the Smash'n'Grab mission. Also, you can only bring 8 men on Supply Raids, UFOs and some guerilla missions now.
  • The different ammo types feel like they are mostly sidegrades now with their own niches rather than some being the best always.
  • Plasma weapons have their own little quirk now to make them more obviously the strongest weapons (1 point of rupture) and end-game enemies are balanced to make them attractive.
  • Psi Operatives sound like they are getting every buff they needed to make them actually useful, including: faster tube times, faster infiltration, better scaling damage, lower cooldowns and a raft of new special effects on particular perks.
  • Significant changes to Shinobi and Sharpshooter to make more of their perks useful and more varied builds worthwhile. Technicals scale better into the end-game.
  • More time to accomplish missions, less punishing reinforcement schedules and smaller pods making 4-5 man groups much easier to run.
  • Underinfiltration much less desirable (enemies get more reflex actions on pod activation, more effects on enemy detection radius and on some missions it will prevent concealed starts, reinforcements start bigger), but probably still doable when needed.
  • You get infiltration bonuses for taking fewer utility items.
  • Easy 1 turn evacs are gone. You'll need to get the Officer ability Air controller if you want lightning fast evacs!

There's obviously a whole bunch of other changes, but those are the standout improvements for me compared to the last patch notes update.

Also, anyone know what a Cyberus is? I haven't seen that term before.
- Increased Andromedon, Cyberus, Chryssalid appearance weights. Chryssalids can happen a little earlier.
Last edited by Tuhalu on Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

khomotso
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Re: 1.3 Changelog got updated.

Postby khomotso » Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:39 pm

Also, anyone know what a Cyberus is?


That was the original name for the Codex. Still present as a label in config files, but always called 'codex' in-game.

Blathergut
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Re: 1.3 Changelog got updated.

Postby Blathergut » Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:42 pm

all these changes sure make you want to play it...maybe we could all sign up to test it :)

justdont
Posts: 113
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Re: 1.3 Changelog got updated.

Postby justdont » Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:27 pm

Blathergut wrote:all these changes sure make you want to play it...maybe we could all sign up to test it :)

Updated changelog and the request for 2nd translation batch means that release is really coming up quite soon.

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johnnylump
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Re: 1.3 Changelog got updated.

Postby johnnylump » Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:00 pm

We still have some testing to do, especially in the late campaign (which just takes a while to get to) to make sure we have the challenge level right. And I promise there isn't some secret release date we're not telling everyone; it's a matter of us being satisfied it's in good enough shape for release. We're close enough that we can say with confidence what will be in there, at least.

Zyxpsilon
Posts: 272
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Re: 1.3 Changelog got updated.

Postby Zyxpsilon » Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:21 pm

Overall, i really like what i see in these multiple updating features but what stands far above anything else is this for me...

- You can now see Psi Offense scores at sectoid autopsy for troops in the barracks.

Just in time to determine more precisely who should be slated & reserved until PSI-Lab gets activated. With the rushing pace of Missions, i always wondered how many GOOD psionic prospect soldiers got ranked once or twice needlessly from simply using the Barracks.

Soooo -- excellent. Good to hear also that your ingame testing phases are more thorough, JL. Solid gameplay context can only please the players if there are less "gimmicky errors".

PS; How do you feel about this simple GFX resources addendum (currently slated for the next version of my qUIck_LW2 Mod to match your v1.3 release).?.!...

Image

ndessell
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:45 am

Re: 1.3 Changelog got updated.

Postby ndessell » Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:29 pm

Tuhalu wrote:It feels like things are moving in a good direction.

  • Liberation missions are getting a little bit easier (one or two less alert levels each), while completing a Tower Mission (free radio relay) and the HQ assault (reliable source of corpses and resources, plus doom reduction) give better rewards. Result: Liberation is an even more attractive goal than before.
  • Hiding does something. The fewer rebels on jobs, the faster vigilance decays in a region. Nice and intuitive.
  • The changes to how retaliations trigger means the late game won't be as absolutely flooded with retaliations as it has been, which will be nice. It will also be far less simple to avoid minor retaliations in the mid-game.
  • Supply Raids and Troop Columns are going to be harder to detect (and less rewarding), but hopefully that's balanced out by more accessible liberations and the Smash'n'Grab mission. Also, you can only bring 8 men on Supply Raids, UFOs and some guerilla missions now.
  • The different ammo types feel like they are mostly sidegrades now with their own niches rather than some being the best always.
  • Plasma weapons have their own little quirk now to make them more obviously the strongest weapons (1 point of rupture) and end-game enemies are balanced to make them attractive.
  • Psi Operatives sound like they are getting every buff they needed to make them actually useful, including: faster tube times, faster infiltration, better scaling damage, lower cooldowns and a raft of new special effects on particular perks.
  • Significant changes to Shinobi and Sharpshooter to make more of their perks useful and more varied builds worthwhile. Technicals scale better into the end-game.
  • More time to accomplish missions, less punishing reinforcement schedules and smaller pods making 4-5 man groups much easier to run.
  • Underinfiltration much less desirable (enemies get more reflex actions on pod activation, more effects on enemy detection radius and on some missions it will prevent concealed starts, reinforcements start bigger), but probably still doable when needed.
  • You get infiltration bonuses for taking fewer utility items.
  • Easy 1 turn evacs are gone. You'll need to get the Officer ability Air controller if you want lightning fast evacs!

There's obviously a whole bunch of other changes, but those are the standout improvements for me compared to the last patch notes update.

Also, anyone know what a Cyberus is? I haven't seen that term before.
- Increased Andromedon, Cyberus, Chryssalid appearance weights. Chryssalids can happen a little earlier.


  • great, libs shouldnt be for liberations sake
  • intuitive and counter productive to the hidden game objectives
  • great now to make intel mini-raids not suck ass
  • they better
  • meh the anti- advent round might(probably) replace venom rounds on my rangers
  • this will get places
  • will never use them anyway, I have maybe 1 run a
  • technical will scale like crap with their one 'thing' gutted. shinobis got 1 more useful perk and 2 other gutted. Snipers are just going to switch from serial to double tap.
  • great
  • THIS IS THE SIGLE STUPIDEST TONE DEAF CHANGE IN THE GAME. The current infiltration is the root of so many issues in LW2 and they go and make the infiltration game harder. 1 step forward 2 mad sprints backward.
  • Sure this isnt counter productive. nope
  • sure, stealthing nerfs

Alketi
Posts: 159
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Re: 1.3 Changelog got updated.

Postby Alketi » Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:42 pm

Tuhalu wrote:It feels like things are moving in a good direction.
I agree with all the positives. I really like most of the changes. I'm very anti-stealth because I think it's too RNG dependent based on patrol paths and other things, so I'm really glad to see less emphasis on that mechanic.

I also really like that Liberations missions are getting a bit easier because any Liberation 3 after the first region was an absolute bear to find and then worse to succeed at without suicide-grenade-cheese. I hope lowering the alert level will help address that.

The retal mechanism is a hopeful positive. It sounds like you'll be filling the retal bucket even at AS 1, so I think it means you'll have less control over preventing them, but fewer of them in rapid succession.

I'm wondering if this is a typo --
Reinforcements won't occur if more than 70 living enemies are on the map.
Perhaps 7 living enemies?

My biggest negative is the pretty large nerf to flashbangs. Radius decreased. Effect drops from 25 aim malus to 20. And, immunity rolls granted to Mutons and others. Aim malus was also decreased for poison. So, overall this means more damage for soldiers, which will hopefully encourage a more active barracks rather than more dead soldiers.

The biggest negative impact of 1.3 may be in dealing with a multiple pod pull, considering all the AOE nerfs along with the Flashbang changes.

Also, the Avenger Defense sounds a lot more terrifying. Hopefully this isn't an RNG-based campaign-ender. "I beat Legend but I didn't have to do a UFO defense"...

Dlareh
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Re: 1.3 Changelog got updated.

Postby Dlareh » Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:53 pm

70 living enemies is not a typo, it's a cap on the number of enemies on the map to avoid crazy outlier scenarios. Practically you might never encounter this cap.

Avenger Defense was disgustingly easy in 1.2, especially on Legend, so that's a welcome change.
Underinfiltration much less desirable (enemies get more reflex actions on pod activation, more effects on enemy detection radius and on some missions it will prevent concealed starts, reinforcements start bigger), but probably still doable when needed.

THIS IS THE SIGLE STUPIDEST TONE DEAF CHANGE IN THE GAME. The current infiltration is the root of so many issues in LW2 and they go and make the infiltration game harder. 1 step forward 2 mad sprints backward.

This outrage fails to take into account all the changes to infiltration times. You'll have more time to infiltrate overall, so they wanted to make sure that strategic decisions to under-infiltrate would lead to legitimately bad tactical consequences.

--

Flashbang nerfs should be taken in context with all the other changes. Yes, they are less crazy-good. They are also less needed.
Excitement continues to build as city centers across the globe prepare for the latest incarnation of Groundhog Day.

Alketi
Posts: 159
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:11 pm

Re: 1.3 Changelog got updated.

Postby Alketi » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:05 pm

Dlareh wrote:70 living enemies is not a typo, it's a cap on the number of enemies on the map to avoid crazy outlier scenarios. Practically you might never encounter this cap.
Well, if there are 70 enemies on the map, I probably have other concerns besides reinforcements. )

Was there a change to somewhat delay reinforcements in the case of a turn #1 activation? Or does that schedule remain the same?

In other words, an 18-turn timer isn't as meaningful if you're still punished for activating early.

Dlareh
Posts: 125
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Re: 1.3 Changelog got updated.

Postby Dlareh » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:13 pm

You'll have other concerns, but at least you won't ever have to deal with the map increasing to 80, 90, 100 aliens ;)

For most missions, I think I remember hearing that reinforcements are based on a set timer regardless of activation.

So, in 1.3 if you intend to fight everything it seems like you're rewarded for activating as early as possible. I think this makes for a more exciting, action-packed game overall.

For situations in which you don't intend to kill everything (e.g. a 3-5 man squad on a guerrilla mission) 1.3's changes make "fighting on the move" scenarios more common. For instance, fighting retreats to a fixed evac after objective completion.
Excitement continues to build as city centers across the globe prepare for the latest incarnation of Groundhog Day.

Tuhalu
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Re: 1.3 Changelog got updated.

Postby Tuhalu » Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:08 pm

Reinforcements have been stated to vary by mission type. Missions with a set evac point and timer will have the reinforcement countdown begin at the start of the mission. Missions with no set evac point will have the reinforcement countdown begin when you break concealment.

There is also a new reinforcement warning system that goes from green, to yellow, to red as reinforcements get closer. If I recall correctly, it goes:
  • Green: Less than 50% of the time to next reinforcements
  • Yellow: More than 50% of time elapsed, but still more than 1 turn away
  • Red: 1 turn until reinforcements drop (as per current system).

ndessell
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Re: 1.3 Changelog got updated.

Postby ndessell » Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:21 pm

Dlareh wrote:
This outrage fails to take into account all the changes to infiltration times. You'll have more time to infiltrate overall, so they wanted to make sure that strategic decisions to under-infiltrate would lead to legitimately bad tactical consequences.
needed.

The problem is the overly harsh penalties of under infiltration, the current meta has you skip missions you can't get to 100% if it isn't a supply raid. Making it easier to get 100% doesn't fix that under infiltration is a non-option. NO no, they make all under infiltration worse to make the one mission that does get underinfiltrated regularly might not be cheesed.

Dlareh
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Re: 1.3 Changelog got updated.

Postby Dlareh » Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:27 pm

I'd assume it's on a sliding scale, so 0% infiltration can be a tactical nightmare but, say, 75% infiltration won't be all *that* bad.
Excitement continues to build as city centers across the globe prepare for the latest incarnation of Groundhog Day.

Drogmyre
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Re: 1.3 Changelog got updated.

Postby Drogmyre » Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:39 pm

The elongating of timers and tying timers to map size is a good change, IMO.

Psi Lab research/building wise: Sectoid Corpses weren't the problem with getting PSI up and running, Elerium is just too precious and too damn hard to find, unless you're lucky and get a ton of cores to render very early on. I'm not optimistic about PSI ops.

Smash and Grab is a step in the right direction, one thing I've noticed is that if you don't have viable supply raids and don't get troop maneuvers you run out of stuff very very fast with little to no way of restocking, particularly in regards to elerium, so this is a good thing.

Still don't understand why Concussion Rocket gives smoke in the first place. I'll give it a try, but I'm 90% sure it's still complete and total garbage.

Thank god Dense Smoke needed to be nerfed, was OP.

In regards to the Demolition nerf: Guys, nerfing ammo costs does literally nothing in X2. If I'm using a skill like Hail of Bullets, Satch Fire, Demo, Area Suppression, etc. I'm reloading first, then popping the ability. Making it cost my entire magazine just makes me reload again next turn before using another of the broken Gunner abilities.

I don't know what nerfing ammo cost accomplishes, other than making you use your first action to reload, or popping an autoloader. Doesn't make sense to me.

Flashbang nerf is reasonable, but I'd like to point out, once again, that Flashbangs are the only option you have to disable bullshit abilities like Tongue Grab early on in the game, and they're one of the few non-suppression aim reducing options you have early game. I'm not saying they didn't need a nerf, but I'd like to see alternatives to flashbangs that aren't ability reliant for the early game in particular.


Overall, really looking forward to 1.3. Lots of good QoL changes, lots more incentives to do Golden Path/Lib missions, lots more ways to get elerium/alloys/supplies, which was absolutely necessary IMO. Class balance changes wise, I'm skeptical, but going in depth would take a while, TLDR gunners are beyond OP.

10% increase on doom generation time is so good though, and seems to have been overlooked. November/December 'you lose' condition has now been bumped to January, so another month or two to ramp up that vigilance, which is nice, coupled with infiltration changes should be sufficient to prevent a lot of the losses out of nowhere.

Dlareh
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Re: 1.3 Changelog got updated.

Postby Dlareh » Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:49 pm

1.3 incentivizes more mobility. "Stand and shoot" cooldown spam remains good, but not as mindlessly effective as it once was. You'll probably want at least 1-2 gunners who early campaign you take Combatives and Formidable on for 3-5 man guerrilla missions

Gunners in xwynns' video for a refresher: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rWWX51gNvc&t=7m51s

Demolition remains great but no longer an auto-pick on its tier
Excitement continues to build as city centers across the globe prepare for the latest incarnation of Groundhog Day.

Tuhalu
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Re: 1.3 Changelog got updated.

Postby Tuhalu » Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:28 pm

Drogmyre wrote:Flashbang nerf is reasonable, but I'd like to point out, once again, that Flashbangs are the only option you have to disable bullshit abilities like Tongue Grab early on in the game, and they're one of the few non-suppression aim reducing options you have early game. I'm not saying they didn't need a nerf, but I'd like to see alternatives to flashbangs that aren't ability reliant for the early game in particular.

We still don't know how badly flashbangs are going to be affected though. Do these resists work on Sting Grenade as well or just the disorient part?

Also, you'll note that Tongue Grab is now only an 8 tile range (down from 12). I suspect that will make it much easier to play around since you can place yourself out of range for a move + tongue grab combo.
Drogmyre wrote:10% increase on doom generation time is so good though, and seems to have been overlooked. November/December 'you lose' condition has now been bumped to January, so another month or two to ramp up that vigilance, which is nice, coupled with infiltration changes should be sufficient to prevent a lot of the losses out of nowhere.

Plus 1 month from that, plus 1-2 months from liberated regions (1 pip per region liberated) and lets not forget the built up vigilance from all those liberated regions slowing down the project on top of that. Not sure that 1 month is that amazing all things considered, but it's not worthless for sure.

Antifringe
Posts: 226
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:52 pm

Re: 1.3 Changelog got updated.

Postby Antifringe » Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:39 pm

Tuhalu wrote:
Drogmyre wrote:Flashbang nerf is reasonable, but I'd like to point out, once again, that Flashbangs are the only option you have to disable bullshit abilities like Tongue Grab early on in the game, and they're one of the few non-suppression aim reducing options you have early game. I'm not saying they didn't need a nerf, but I'd like to see alternatives to flashbangs that aren't ability reliant for the early game in particular.

We still don't know how badly flashbangs are going to be affected though. Do these resists work on Sting Grenade as well or just the disorient part?


Can't answer the part about Sting grenades, but the Flashbang resistances are:

Code: Select all

+ENEMY_FLASHBANG_RESIST=(UnitName=Gatekeeper, Chance=75)
+ENEMY_FLASHBANG_RESIST=(UnitName=MutonM2_LW, Chance=20)
+ENEMY_FLASHBANG_RESIST=(UnitName=MutonM3_LW, Chance=67)
+ENEMY_FLASHBANG_RESIST=(UnitName=AdvPsiWitchM3, Chance=100)
+ENEMY_FLASHBANG_RESIST=(UnitName=AdvGeneralM1, Chance=50)
+ENEMY_FLASHBANG_RESIST=(UnitName=AdvGeneralM2, Chance=75)
+ENEMY_FLASHBANG_RESIST=(UnitName=SectoidM2_LW, Chance=33)
+ENEMY_FLASHBANG_RESIST=(UnitName=ArchonM2_LW, Chance=33)
+ENEMY_FLASHBANG_RESIST=(UnitName=ViperKing, Chance=100)
+ENEMY_FLASHBANG_RESIST=(UnitName=BerserkerQueen, Chance=100)
+ENEMY_FLASHBANG_RESIST=(UnitName=ArchonKing,Chance=100)


Source. See bottom post on page.

Snakes are notably absent from this list (Viperking doesn't count).

ndessell
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:45 am

Re: 1.3 Changelog got updated.

Postby ndessell » Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:10 pm

Dlareh wrote:I'd assume it's on a sliding scale, so 0% infiltration can be a tactical nightmare but, say, 75% infiltration won't be all *that* bad.

that sliding scale would be a buff. The penalties now would make the 75% dicey at best on anything but a supply raid, where you have the time, space and manpower to camp away 9 extra enemies.


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