I love my loot grenadier!

Nibelung44
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:32 am

I love my loot grenadier!

Post by Nibelung44 »

Sure, he don't destroy cover (but cover destruction is somehow unreliable and there are others means), but oh man, maximized damages in an increased zone that keep loot, sweet.
Added bonus... EXO armor... Did you know that killing with a needle grenadier with the shredder cannon preserves loot :lol:
chrisb
Pavonis Dev
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Re: I love my loot grenadier!

Post by chrisb »

I pretty much only roll with Needle Grenadiers now. Sapper does handle certain kinds of cover well, but ayys seem to have a tendency to find cover that sapper won't even graze. Just about everything else is more reliable.
LordYanaek
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Re: I love my loot grenadier!

Post by LordYanaek »

Nibelung44 wrote: Added bonus... EXO armor... Did you know that killing with a needle grenadier with the shredder cannon preserves loot :lol:
OK, Shredder Cannon was already beyond broken, what does that make it :shock:
CasualGamer
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Re: I love my loot grenadier!

Post by CasualGamer »

LordYanaek wrote:
Nibelung44 wrote: Added bonus... EXO armor... Did you know that killing with a needle grenadier with the shredder cannon preserves loot :lol:
OK, Shredder Cannon was already beyond broken, what does that make it :shock:
Shredded ...
AlexTFish
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Re: I love my loot grenadier!

Post by AlexTFish »

Do Needle Grenades also leave enemy corpses "intact" (intact enough to sell/autopsy)? Or is it just Loot items that are treated differently by needles?
chrisb
Pavonis Dev
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Re: I love my loot grenadier!

Post by chrisb »

AlexTFish wrote:Do Needle Grenades also leave enemy corpses "intact" (intact enough to sell/autopsy)? Or is it just Loot items that are treated differently by needles?
Yes
cerebrawl
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Re: I love my loot grenadier!

Post by cerebrawl »

AlexTFish wrote:Do Needle Grenades also leave enemy corpses "intact" (intact enough to sell/autopsy)? Or is it just Loot items that are treated differently by needles?
Just loot. Don't bring blasty grenadiers on supply raids and the like unless you absolutely need them. Mine are relegated to non-materiel reward missions only.
JulianSkies
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Re: I love my loot grenadier!

Post by JulianSkies »

cerebrawl wrote:
AlexTFish wrote:Do Needle Grenades also leave enemy corpses "intact" (intact enough to sell/autopsy)? Or is it just Loot items that are treated differently by needles?
Just loot. Don't bring blasty grenadiers on supply raids and the like unless you absolutely need them. Mine are relegated to non-materiel reward missions only.
I am 100% certain that needle also leaves bodies intact
seananigans
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Re: I love my loot grenadier!

Post by seananigans »

JulianSkies wrote:
cerebrawl wrote:
AlexTFish wrote:Do Needle Grenades also leave enemy corpses "intact" (intact enough to sell/autopsy)? Or is it just Loot items that are treated differently by needles?
Just loot. Don't bring blasty grenadiers on supply raids and the like unless you absolutely need them. Mine are relegated to non-materiel reward missions only.
I am 100% certain that needle also leaves bodies intact
Yeah based on the rest of his post, I think he misunderstood the question.

Yes, Needle indeed preserves everything, basically treating the grenade like a normal gun shot.
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Zloth
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Re: I love my loot grenadier!

Post by Zloth »

Pththth, my Run & Gun sniper can pwn your loot grenadier! :twisted:
The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views…
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Alketi
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Re: I love my loot grenadier!

Post by Alketi »

I love mine as well! He destroys cover nearly as well as a Sapper grenadier (i.e. not much at all) and I can BOMB away without regret.
cerebrawl
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Re: I love my loot grenadier!

Post by cerebrawl »

seananigans wrote:Yeah based on the rest of his post, I think he misunderstood the question.

Yes, Needle indeed preserves everything, basically treating the grenade like a normal gun shot.
Odd, I've had them destroy corpses, for certain. In supply raids and in spy intercepts, and yes, that's with killing the faceless with grenades AFTER they change, and still not getting corpses.
LordYanaek
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Re: I love my loot grenadier!

Post by LordYanaek »

If they were actually killed by the grenade and not a secondary explosion (car or whatever) it would be a bug.
Goldenmonkey
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Re: I love my loot grenadier!

Post by Goldenmonkey »

One thing though, do they do well in late game? You rarely ever kill things with grenades late game, do you?
Tuhalu
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Re: I love my loot grenadier!

Post by Tuhalu »

Goldenmonkey wrote:One thing though, do they do well in late game? You rarely ever kill things with grenades late game, do you?
I'm super close to finishing the game on Veteran difficulty (and haven't even upgraded my grenade launchers yet).

My needle grenadiers are averaging ~3.5 kills per mission. I have one with 70 kills over 19 missions, one with 114 kills over 34 missions and one with 55 kills over 16 missions. My rapid reaction rangers and Street Sweeper Assaults are the only classes that are more effective and those guys need to be basically max level before they become amazing. For reference, my best RR ranger has 131 kills over 26 missions (~5 kills per mission) and my best Assault has 84 kills over 20 missions (4.2 kills per mission).

Some other classes run equal. My best Sharpshooter has 44 kills over 13 missions (~3.4 kills per mission). I have an Overwatch Specialist with 78 kills over 37 missions (2.1 kills per mission, not bad for utility class!).

I'm not entirely convinced that my grenadier kills will go down so much relative to other classes on higher difficulties. Even after you run out of grenades, you can still put a rifle on them and make things die to that (I love my overwatch traps). I tend to use a mobility PCS on them, so they don't need to use an SMG on straight combat missions.

One thing that probably skews grenadier kills in their favor is that I love to use command on them. Very rarely do I have a better option than to throw another plasma or incendiary grenade into a pack of enemies.
Goldenmonkey
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Re: I love my loot grenadier!

Post by Goldenmonkey »

Tuhalu wrote:
Goldenmonkey wrote:One thing though, do they do well in late game? You rarely ever kill things with grenades late game, do you?
I'm super close to finishing the game on Veteran difficulty (and haven't even upgraded my grenade launchers yet).

My needle grenadiers are averaging ~3.5 kills per mission. I have one with 70 kills over 19 missions, one with 114 kills over 34 missions and one with 55 kills over 16 missions. My rapid reaction rangers and Street Sweeper Assaults are the only classes that are more effective and those guys need to be basically max level before they become amazing. For reference, my best RR ranger has 131 kills over 26 missions (~5 kills per mission) and my best Assault has 84 kills over 20 missions (4.2 kills per mission).

Some other classes run equal. My best Sharpshooter has 44 kills over 13 missions (~3.4 kills per mission). I have an Overwatch Specialist with 78 kills over 37 missions (2.1 kills per mission, not bad for utility class!).

I'm not entirely convinced that my grenadier kills will go down so much relative to other classes on higher difficulties. Even after you run out of grenades, you can still put a rifle on them and make things die to that (I love my overwatch traps). I tend to use a mobility PCS on them, so they don't need to use an SMG on straight combat missions.

One thing that probably skews grenadier kills in their favor is that I love to use command on them. Very rarely do I have a better option than to throw another plasma or incendiary grenade into a pack of enemies.
To be more precise, do you kill many enemies with grenades (otherwise, you don't need needle grenades)? Don't they fall off in damage compared to enermy hp and are mainly to shred armour and soften them up? I haven't really used grenadiers that much myself.
Tuhalu
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Re: I love my loot grenadier!

Post by Tuhalu »

Goldenmonkey wrote: To be more precise, do you kill many enemies with grenades (otherwise, you don't need needle grenades)? Don't they fall off in damage compared to enermy hp and are mainly to shred armour and soften them up? I haven't really used grenadiers that much myself.
I tend to bring 2 Plasma and 2 Incendiary, with Full Kit doubling those numbers. Incendiaries can often be used to kill 3 enemies at once (initial damage + burn) if they aren't stacking too much armor (anything with 15 health often dies). Plasmas are used for finishing off groups softened by other means, but also for cracking heavy armored units.

I tend not to use my gun unless I'm on a Supply Raid or Troop Column where I can draw enemies into an overwatch trap. When I do, they sometimes get a kill either on overwatch or afterwards when I need to pick off a single enemy.

To be honest, by the time I reach the "end game", needle grenades are close to irrelevant. I have all the loot I need due to killing hundreds of enemies with my loot grenades in the early and mid game.

However, sapper is almost entirely irrelevant throughout the entire game. If you really need some cover destroyed, you'll use Gunners (Demolition) or Technicals (Rocket, Bunker Buster or Firestorm) to make it go away. Of course, you rarely actually need cover destroyed, because you can often incendiary grenade or run'n'gun or sniper a given target to make them do nothing. Or even just make them die as they run into an overwatch trap.
LordYanaek
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Re: I love my loot grenadier!

Post by LordYanaek »

Tuhalu wrote: I tend to bring 2 Plasma and 2 Incendiary, with Full Kit doubling those numbers. Incendiaries can often be used to kill 3 enemies at once (initial damage + burn) if they aren't stacking too much armor (anything with 15 health often dies). Plasmas are used for finishing off groups softened by other means, but also for cracking heavy armored units.
Now, i'm impressed. Apart from the first concealment ambush, how do you hit 3 enemies at once with an Incendiary Grenade, their AoE is just ridiculously small :shock:
For first ambush, i think there are better openers (capable of hitting more than 3 guys).
That being said, i like Needle grenades as it gives your grenadier more options : you can finish hard to hit wounded enemies or kill low health/high danger Sneks in addition to shred armor on big targets but to me the Incendiary is the snipe-grenade : high damage - single target attack.
Tuhalu
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Re: I love my loot grenadier!

Post by Tuhalu »

LordYanaek wrote: Now, i'm impressed. Apart from the first concealment ambush, how do you hit 3 enemies at once with an Incendiary Grenade, their AoE is just ridiculously small :shock:
Incendiary Bomb + Volatile Grenade + Advanced Grenade Launcher = 5 tile radius incendiaries. At that point, you can hit entire 8 pods with one Incendiary though :P

In the midgame, you can still use scouting and careful movement to get your grenadier in the right position to grenade without them actually seeing you (full cover blockers are glorious).
LordYanaek
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Re: I love my loot grenadier!

Post by LordYanaek »

Tuhalu wrote: Incendiary Bomb + Volatile Grenade + Advanced Grenade Launcher = 5 tile radius incendiaries. At that point, you can hit entire 8 pods with one Incendiary though :P
OK, i thought you were talking about the grenade and not the bomb considering Incendiary Bomb and Advanced Grenade Launcher are not late-game techs but post-game techs :evil:
In the midgame, you can still use scouting and careful movement to get your grenadier in the right position to grenade without them actually seeing you (full cover blockers are glorious).
Mhh, if you have a long line of full cover without LoS bugs and you can actually shoot above it, then yes you could open a second pod with an Incendiary Grenade. It's not something you see every mission though :(
Tuhalu
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Re: I love my loot grenadier!

Post by Tuhalu »

LordYanaek wrote: OK, i thought you were talking about the grenade and not the bomb considering Incendiary Bomb and Advanced Grenade Launcher are not late-game techs but post-game techs :evil:
Eh, I got them with plenty of game to play still on Veteran. On Legendary, you are almost certain to get them since you reach Andromedons that much faster.
LordYanaek wrote:Mhh, if you have a long line of full cover without LoS bugs and you can actually shoot above it, then yes you could open a second pod with an Incendiary Grenade. It's not something you see every mission though :(
I get it often enough. I play with LOS Preview Ability, so I can see which route I should take. Sometimes they just bunch themselves up too.
LordYanaek
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Re: I love my loot grenadier!

Post by LordYanaek »

Tuhalu wrote: Eh, I got them with plenty of game to play still on Veteran. On Legendary, you are almost certain to get them since you reach Andromedons that much faster.
Well, i play on Commander and got my first Andromedon to autopsy in February second year, later than most players finish their campaign :(
It was one Andromedon of course, i had no additional corpses to build any item requiring them and still had all the Proving Ground projects to complete so i decided i didn't need any advanced explosives that much.
I get it often enough. I play with LOS Preview Ability, so I can see which route I should take. Sometimes they just bunch themselves up too.
I also play with that mod but you don't always have multi tiles high cover that's narrow enough to lob a grenade above without moving to the edge and be spotted and some of those (like wooden palisades) tend to be prone to the LoS bug where you end up visible (and flanked) by enemies on the other side.
nightwyrm
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Re: I love my loot grenadier!

Post by nightwyrm »

While you need Andromedons to research Advanced Explosives, you don't need them to build Advance Grenade Launchers. I believe it takes Muton Elite corpses instead.
Tuhalu
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Re: I love my loot grenadier!

Post by Tuhalu »

nightwyrm wrote:While you need Andromedons to research Advanced Explosives, you don't need them to build Advance Grenade Launchers. I believe it takes Muton Elite corpses instead.
You're thinking of Blaster Gauntlets (which require Muton Elite Autopsy to unlock and Muton Elite corpses to make).

Andromedon Autopsy is required for Advanced Explosives, which unlock Advanced Grenade Launchers as well as the bomb proving grounds projects. Fortunately, AGLs require no corpses to actually build once you've unlocked them.

It would be nice if AGLs unlocked a little earlier actually, so that you don't get +2 radius in very short order right at the end of the game.
nightwyrm
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Re: I love my loot grenadier!

Post by nightwyrm »

Tuhalu wrote:
nightwyrm wrote:While you need Andromedons to research Advanced Explosives, you don't need them to build Advance Grenade Launchers. I believe it takes Muton Elite corpses instead.
You're thinking of Blaster Gauntlets (which require Muton Elite Autopsy to unlock and Muton Elite corpses to make).

Andromedon Autopsy is required for Advanced Explosives, which unlock Advanced Grenade Launchers as well as the bomb proving grounds projects. Fortunately, AGLs require no corpses to actually build once you've unlocked them.

It would be nice if AGLs unlocked a little earlier actually, so that you don't get +2 radius in very short order right at the end of the game.
Even better! AGLs for everybody!
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