[Suggestion] Double-barrel as 2 separate rolls & small tweaks

[Arantir]

Sawed-Off is a pretty cool weapon, and I tried to use it a lot in my playthrough. While it's pretty useful sometimes I've come to conclusion that it becomes underwhelming fairly quickly and getting the advanced version at coil tier doesn't fix it. It has to do with current both-barrel mechanics and existence of Rapid Fire.

I found it pretty odd that double-barrel salvo actually calculates like a single shot. It's the only weapon in the game with this controversy since you use 2 ammo and it's not a special ammo-consumming ability to justify only a single roll.

The difference is actually pretty big. Having only 1 roll means that we have linear damage distribution, damage boosting items/abilities apply only once and there could be only one crit with crit damage similar to single-shot. That's ~11% to do min damage on shots with ballistic version while it would be ~1% if you shoot twice with single-barrel. It's often not worth to point-blank M2 enemies with 12-13 HP (who I think should be the main targets for a sawed-off) when you've got the chance, too risky because of damage distribution and later on when you can have a mag shorty it's often weaker or just not better than rapid fire since you don't roll for a crit twice. I suggest making it similar to Cyclic Fire calculations, but for 2 shots.

Sawed-off seems like a somewhat useful part of a crit-focused ranger at first glance, but it's not the case. Conventional variant should have at least +3 crit damage like a regular ballistic shotgun so it would be 6 on double-barrel shots if you score two crits. It lacks synergy with early-game Close & Personal and it's a relatively weak choice for a class who shoots at mid/long range most of the time, Walk Fire is just a strong option overall for any build at LCPL. You would also miss Locked On if you want an extra shot for this thing and it's also a wery strong perk for Light 'Em Up > Rapid Fire 3-shot combo.

Coil tier sawed-off I think should have an AP effect like all other coil weapons. Yeah, it called "mag shorty" but it requires advanced coilguns and have similar design so you would totally expect an AP effect, we've got it on the pistol after all.

There's already a lot of restrictions for this weapon so I don't think that following changes would make it imbalanced in any way. I'd say it still would be underwhelming but to a somewhat lesser extent and that's someting to begin with.

[Autoclave]

I fully support solving this issue. May be adding an extra weapon tier would be beneficial.

[amgarrak1]

I am not a weapon expert but isn't it supposed to fire from both barrels AT ONCE hence a single roll? Again I don't know how it actually works in real life but in plenty of other games sawed-off shotguns fire from both barrels simultaneously. And even if you don't take realism into accout, both barrels is already op, especially the upgraded version as it is a oneshot at close range and also an absolute cheat of a weapon on destroy relay missions.

[Arantir]

Whether you fire both barrels at once or not on a double-shot is irrelevant for the game mechanics in this case. It's also quite far from being OP and it can't reliably one-shot things above 10-11 HP i.e. MECs, facelesses midgame officers, sergeants, vipers, ocassional elite troopers and mutons (if we're talking about legend difficulty). Sawed-off is a pretty situational weapon, you can't use it whenever you want and a failed shot usually results in dead or badly wounded soldier. It's not wise to go for a kill if the chance to actually kill the target is below 90% unless you're already in a bad situation and can't afford to play it safe.

With upgraded version you surely can one-shot 16-17 HP targets but your rangers could really do better with point-blank Rapid Fire at this point cause you can proc multiple Bring 'Em On crits and the chance to crit at least once is higher if it's not 100%. Rapid fire is safer at the worst case and can also deal more max damage because of crits if you're shooting something tough.

Separate rolls would make it's far less likely to get the absolute minimum/maximum so you could expect an average output without crossing your fingers. It's pretty important when you've got a big damage spread. Perks like Close & Personal and Pump Action, which currenty are on the weaker side would also be a little bit more useful.

How it performs on stealth missions against relays is also irrelevant, there are a lot of things that are technically OP in this case but it's the problem of stealth missions in general.

[Jadiel]

Whether you fire both barrels at once or not on a double-shot is irrelevant for the game mechanics in this case. It's also quite far from being OP and it can't reliably one-shot things above 10-11 HP i.e. MECs, facelesses midgame officers, sergeants, vipers, ocassional elite troopers and mutons (if we're talking about legend difficulty). Sawed-off is a pretty situational weapon, you can't use it whenever you want and a failed shot usually results in dead or badly wounded soldier. It's not wise to go for a kill if the chance to actually kill the target is below 90% unless you're already in a bad situation and can't afford to play it safe.

With upgraded version you surely can one-shot 16-17 HP targets but your rangers could really do better with point-blank Rapid Fire at this point cause you can proc multiple Bring 'Em On crits and the chance to crit at least once is higher if it's not 100%. Rapid fire is safer at the worst case and can also deal more max damage because of crits if you're shooting something tough.

Separate rolls would make it's far less likely to get the absolute minimum/maximum so you could expect an average output without crossing your fingers. It's pretty important when you've got a big damage spread. Perks like Close & Personal and Pump Action, which currenty are on the weaker side would also be a little bit more useful.

How it performs on stealth missions is also irrelevant, there are a lot of things that are technically OP in this case but it's the problem of stealth missions in general.

You seem to be making your case predicated on the assumption that all rangers have Rapid Fire and Bring 'Em 'On. Is this true?

[Arantir]

You seem to be making your case predicated on the assumption that all rangers have Rapid Fire and Bring 'Em 'On. Is this true?

It's not, but those are really strong perks for Rangers who would go for close-range shots more often than others. It's just a good example I guess. I think that even in the extreme case using a sawed-off should be something more than a way to conserve ammo on your powerful primary weapon.