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I want to build some overwatch class in LW2. I heard Cool Under Pressure is beast, while Covering Fire is very bad. I searched this forum & reddit about overwatch mechanism before. But I still confuse how these perks work. So, I post this topic.

Thanks a lot!

CUP is the best overwatch perk you can get that isn't Sentinel, Guardian, or Rapid Response. The only time, in my experience, where CUP is not worth taking for an Overwatcher, is when it bumps up against Danger Zone on a Gunner. Then it's a trade-off on suppression capacity versus damage and aim. CUP gives your overwatch shots (when done on the enemy's turn and not as part of an ambush, which retain their critting capacity) the ability to crit and a +hit that negates the Overwatch penalty entirely.

Covering Fire simply makes it so that your overwatch shots can be triggered by an enemy taking fire or doing another red action. The reason it's looked poorly upon is that, when it triggers, an enemy is oftentimes still in cover. If a Trooper is taking a potshot out of full cover at your troops, then that's a shitty waste of an Overwatch shot on your Overwatcher who could've otherwise taken a 90% shot on some idiot Sectoid running around between cover spots.

What exactly are you confused about?
Covering Fire:
Overwatch shots can now be triggered by any enemy action, not just movement.

Cool Under Pressure
You gain +10 Aim on Overwatch and other reaction shots, and they can critically hit.

Does CUP benefit from flanking/exposed +40% crit when it triggers on movement?
How about the hunter instincts +2 damage? Do we benefit from that during overwatches?

I saw Xwynns`s LW2 video. He use Perfect Information mod. In one of the recent video, his CUP Gunner using Killzone or Area Supp to kill enemy. The information shows that Cirt 40% or 41% after the reaction shoot. So, it seems that CUP overwacther have free 40% crit on every overwatch/reaction shoot. That is why I make this post to ensure of this.

If we have some soldiers got crit AWC perk. They should learn CUP.

Your question is more towards overwatch in general. The perks don't change the general calculation of the overwatch. Covering fire certainly doesn't.

As far as I know, reaction fire shots calculate just like any shots, minus the aim penalty. They calculate at the tile where the shot is triggered, that's why it matters which route you take when you pull overwatch fire, because you can get cover bonus. Also, dashing gives another penalty for the shooter.
So yes, flanked bonus should count.

CUP then just gives a bonus to the overwatch calculation

So Hunter's instincts can be regarded as +2 damage on overwatch for targets that are moving out of cover?
That's a serious damage bonus for an overwatching sniper if it works so.

CuP as well as every other reaction fire accuracy bonus does in fact add accuracy after the penalty from reaction fire.
Reaction fire, after it calculates accuracy per normal, further multiplies the final value by 70%, so if a normal shot would have 80 to hit a reaction shot would have 56 to hit (56 is 70% of 80).
All the reaction fire bonuses are applied after, so with CuP with the same values you would have 66 to hit, plus ability to crit. Lockdown (+15 to suppression reaction), Fire Discipline (+10, officer ability) and Hair Triggers (+5 to +15, weapon mod) apply the same way .

Yeah, Hunter's Instincts do also apply of the target is out of cover, overwatch snipers can be amazing.

Also people dislike Covering Fire because you often end up firing at targets in cover, thus having a low accuracy.

JulianSkies wrote:CuP as well as every other reaction fire accuracy bonus does in fact add accuracy after the penalty from reaction fire.
Reaction fire, after it calculates accuracy per normal, further multiplies the final value by 70%, so if a normal shot would have 80 to hit a reaction shot would have 56 to hit (56 is 70% of 80).
All the reaction fire bonuses are applied after, so with CuP with the same values you would have 66 to hit, plus ability to crit. Lockdown (+15 to suppression reaction), Fire Discipline (+10, officer ability) and Hair Triggers (+5 to +15, weapon mod) apply the same way .

Yeah, Hunter's Instincts do also apply of the target is out of cover, overwatch snipers can be amazing.

Also people dislike Covering Fire because you often end up firing at targets in cover, thus having a low accuracy.

Thank you, JulianSkies! Your explanation is very helpful. So, if aim of normal shot is 80%, Covering Fire would have 26%/11% to hit a shooter in a half/full cover. That is bad.

After test, Hunter's Instincts does work with overwatch Sniper. Tier1 Sniper Rifle is 4-6 damage. It will be 7-9 damage with Hunter`s Instincts. That is cool!

Sharp Shooter with Killzone, Hunter`s Instincts & Cup would be rock. Cup give 10% aim and 40% crit to reaction shoot of Killzone, while Hunter`s Instincts add 2 damage to every bullet. Don`t forget Sniper Rifle have 10% crit as well. This build would be overkill.

Killzone either incorrectly states it uses Squad Sight or incorrectly doesn't use it. Right now, Killzone on a Sharpshooter is a waste because of that.

Clibanarius wrote:Killzone either incorrectly states it uses Squad Sight or incorrectly doesn't use it. Right now, Killzone on a Sharpshooter is a waste because of that.

I think your sharpshooter needs long watch in order to killzone triggers on squadsight

It seems that Killzone would gain Squad Sight when Sharp Shooter have Long Watch. I have just tested that. If LW2 Sharp Shooter need Long Watch to synergize with Killzone. Pavonis Interactive should give Killzone back.

Damn, I miss Killzone Sharp Shooter from vanilla XCOM2 so much.

JulianSkies wrote:CuP as well as every other reaction fire accuracy bonus does in fact add accuracy after the penalty from reaction fire.
Reaction fire, after it calculates accuracy per normal, further multiplies the final value by 70%, so if a normal shot would have 80 to hit a reaction shot would have 56 to hit (56 is 70% of 80).
All the reaction fire bonuses are applied after, so with CuP with the same values you would have 66 to hit, plus ability to crit. Lockdown (+15 to suppression reaction), Fire Discipline (+10, officer ability) and Hair Triggers (+5 to +15, weapon mod) apply the same way .

The bonus is actually applied before the percent reduction for reaction fire, but is inflated to roughly make up the difference.

For example, Lockdown's +15 to hit is actually +22 to hit under the hood. Against someone making a yellow move, this comes out as roughly +15 after the x0.7 modifier is applied. But against someone making a yellow (dash) move, it's roughly +13 after the x0.6 modifier is applied.

When stacking Lockdown, Fire Discipline, Cool Under Pressure (from AWC) and a Superior Hair Trigger, a gunner gets +50 to hit against blue moves and +43 to hit against dash/yellow moves. Against enemies with much defense at all, you can actually miss (or miss more) due to the difference on dash/yellow moves.

The issue with the wording in Killzone is this: it gives Longwatch, but not Squadsight. Longwatch lets you overwatch in Squadsight range if you have it. The base assumption in the vanilla wording, that PI did bit change, is that you would invariably have Squadsight.
So in short, if the soldier has the Squadsight perk then it works at that range, otherwise, it does not.

Also Tuhalu, I'm aware of that but I figured I'd give a simpler explanation that does tyre job short of real edge cases, I've never seen an enemy actually dash in sight, they normally double move but don't dash.

As my test, only Stun Lancer would dash. Cause Lancer try to stun my Sharp Shooter at dash range. Yes, most enemy will double blue move.

rifleman wrote:As my test, only Stun Lancer would dash. Cause Lancer try to stun my Sharp Shooter at dash range. Yes, most enemy will double blue move.

I've seen Faceless do dashes off and on. Roughly 50% of the time, really. They'll either run full-bore toward whomever they're closing with, or they'll blue move, then re-assess and blue move again. But yes, most enemies rarely dash, I'd posit a guess that only melee enemies have AI that allows them to dash regularly. I can't speak toward what the AI tends to prefer if it's running a suppression though. And ADVENT do occasionally have that "shit go get friends" behavior if they're the lone survivor, which could lead to dashing directly away from your group.