Technical Love

[Jacke]

Seems there's a lot of dislike for Technicals. They're either destroying good corpses and loot with their heavy weapons. Or they've run out of resources and their SMG isn't good enough to make them worthwhile. Or at later ranks they're just not good enough.

Well, I think they're cool! And hot! Rockets and flames, what's not to love?

And I finally had a mission where I got a chance to do a good BURNiNATE!

Had a Shinobi, Specialist, Technical, and Rookie on a Free 3 VIPs from Jail extremely light mission. Snuck past one ADVENT 4-pod with a drone to the Jail, which had a turret on the roof. Put the Shinobi on the roof to watch out for the pod coming back and took the rest of the squad around back. Where I saw another ADVENT pod patrolling.

Right into range of the flamethrower. Specialist and Rookie in line abreast with the Technical and went on overwatch. Then I BURNiNATED them! One ADVENT trooper roasted completely, the Officer and a 2nd trooper finished off by overwatch shots, and the last trooper ran off to cover with 2hp to quietly burn to death in the Alien turn.

And then the other pod activated and moved around from the front of the Jail. To receive my Technical's rocket striking the Officer and both Gunners. The Rookie dropped smoke on the squad. And then the Specialist pulled off a hack to take control of the turret. The turret further wounded the Officer and one Gunner. Alien turn the drone advanced and tried to stun the Specialist but in the smoke missed. The Gunners both shot at the turret and the Officer marked the Technical. Next turn the turret killed one Gunner and damaged the drone while the Shinobi went through the Jail and shot and killed the other Gunner. Drone came in close but missed the Specialist in the smoke again. Officer marked the Technical again. Then the Specialist killed the Drone and the Shinobi fleched the Officer.

Ignored the turret and hacked the jail and got the VIPs to the evac. Squad was ovewatching around the evac when another ADVENT pod dropped as reinforcements. Reaction shots wounded 3 of the 4. Then the Technical used his last BURNiNATE to roast 2 of them and the rest of the squad killed off the other 2.

Now I want Technicals to have a perk to pack an incendiary rocket. Rockets and flames together!

[LordYanaek]

Well, yes they can be cool and really good when they have some luck but they are quite unreliable which is annoying. The flamethrower can lock an entire pod with fire if you're lucky, or barely do some miserable damage if you're not! The rocket can blow every cover to give you easy targets or scatter and barely scratch them with the edge of it's AoE.

The flamethrower is a valid opener very early but there are many better openers later : trench gun and frost grenade are available quite early; then you get sting grenades and saturation fire; with a bit of AWC luck a needle/biggest boom/shadowstrike grenadier can blow an entire pod and give you the loot. Most of my techs ended up as advisors in havens as soon as i had more options to open the first pod. I kept my highest mobility Tech in my heavy duty squad built with Fire in the Hole | Napalm-X | Burnout | Phosphorus | Incinerator | Quickburn an EXO for high pressure tank and SMG line rifle. When things go south she goes as close as possible to the enemy, on low cover or no cover if needed and burns as many of them as possible with 2 flamethrower blasts then i put an aid protocol in addition to the smoke from Burnout and pray. So far she survived and managed to help me a couple times in those 1 days left destroy the relay to counter a dark even or <10% supply raids but often she just sits there taking pot-shots with her "primary" weapon and i often wonder whether i would be better off with an additional grenadier

[Jacke]

Good points, but I still have a warm spot in my heart for the BURNiNATE.

About Phosphorus, I really wonder if it's worth it, even on a Technical Flamer. The only mech it's likely to seriously hurt or kill is a drone, as it can't set the metal beasties on fire, just damage them initially. Sure that's a bit of Red Fog on a MEC, but it won't be on fire or panicked, so there's still a lot of damage needed to be done to put it down beyond a bit of singing on the edge. (Although Phosphorus and Firestorm could singe a number of them.) I think Tandem Warheads or Formidable might be better choices.

[Jadiel]

Good points, but I still have a warm spot in my heart for the BURNiNATE.

About Phosphorus, I really wonder if it's worth it, even on a Technical Flamer. The only mech it's likely to seriously hurt or kill is a drone, as it can't set the metal beasties on fire, just damage them initially. Sure that's a bit of Red Fog on a MEC, but it won't be on fire or panicked, so there's still a lot of damage needed to be done to put it down beyond a bit of singing on the edge. (Although Phosphorus and Firestorm could singe a number of them.) I think Tandem Warheads or Formidable might be better choices.

If you have Napalm-X as well Phosphorous then flamers can disorientate Mechs. I'm not sure what the chance is, as I don't usually take Phosphorus, but disorienting Mechs is really good (as most of their scariness comes from abilities like micromissles).

[gimrah]

most of their scariness comes from abilities like micromissles

Not sure about this. I find it at least as scary when they charge forward without caring about cover and flank someone at point blank.

[LordYanaek]

About Phosphorus, I really wonder if it's worth it, even on a Technical Flamer.

I'm totally not convinced myself but the AWC time is too high and the other perks not that great anyway. Formidable could give a small added survivability but the retraining time is just way too prohibitive. It was the first time i tested Phosphorus, at least it helps dealing some damage so that i don't have to use a high damage soldier like my crit gunner or snipe on that mech. They are not my priority target but if a Mec is within the cone, it doesn't hurt to also damage it.

Tandem Warheads for that one rocket i fire once in while is a big no anyway. It doesn't help for environmental damage and blowing cover is all i (try to) do with the rocket

[Jacke]

Now I want Technicals to have a perk to pack an incendiary rocket. Rockets and flames together!

Apparently someone else had the same idea, but not as a perk but as equipment.

The More Technical Rockets mod adds other rocket types for the Technical to carry, most of them available when equivalent grenade projects are developed in the Proving Ground.

Including the Napalm Rocket when Incendiary Grenades are researched.

[Silenus]

Can't say I'm too happy with the Technical. It's my favorite class, but that's because I love the idea of it more rather than the reality.

From mid-game, the flamethrower isn't going to be killing anything much outright, so it's mainly being used to apply damage-over-time and the burning debuffs to enemies. Yet there are no perks that really help it in these areas. I think the lackluster Phosphorus and Napalm-X perks should be altered to buff these two features of the flamethrower. Increases to burning chance and burning damage would be nice.

Technicals just don't have that much purpose or identity outside of the early game. Rocket Technicals could have been the cover destruction specialists (they get Bunker Buster, after all) but Grenadiers get sapper early and then Combat Engineer later, and everyone gets access to the (frankly, totally OP) Shredder cannon as soon as EXO suits become available. Fireman Technicals could have been flaming DoT/crowd-control specialists, but Grenadiers (again!) steal their thunder (or fire) with incendiary grenades.

[trihero]

From mid-game, the flamethrower isn't going to be killing anything much outright, so it's mainly being used to apply damage-over-time and the burning debuffs to enemies. Yet there are no perks that really help it in these areas. I think the lackluster Phosphorus and Napalm-X perks should be altered to buff these two features of the flamethrower. Increases to burning chance and burning damage would be nice.

Upgrading the gauntlet improves the chance to light things on fire.

[Silenus]

Upgrading the gauntlet improves the chance to light things on fire.

Are you sure? I've had a look through the ini files but I didn't see anything that modifies the burning chance for different gauntlets. I know there's the DIRECT_BURNING_CHANCE entry in XComLW_SoldierSkills, but I thought that was unmodified and applied to all versions of the Gauntlet?

[Devon_v]

I think the issue is that fire is too strong in LW2. Therefore they made the fire-using class really unreliable to keep it balanced. As is, flamer Techs are very RNG to use. But if they were consistent they'd be OP because they'd be the one and only correct way to activate the main pod.

Imagine what xwynns does, only it works for all of us, all the time.

[seananigans]

On the subject of Technicals, is it intended that a Tech can't use a Shredder Cannon on his/her exo suit, and has to pick a rocket or flame tanks? I found this weird when I got my first exo suit, was hoping to add more utility to my Tech rather than just another charge of an existing ability.

[nightwyrm]

On the subject of Technicals, is it intended that a Tech can't use a Shredder Cannon on his/her exo suit, and has to pick a rocket or flame tanks? I found this weird when I got my first exo suit, was hoping to add more utility to my Tech rather than just another charge of an existing ability.

Pretty sure it's intended. Ironically makes the Tech the worse at using the EXO....

[saroscycler]

The solution is to add IEDs to the game and make Techies the class for IEDs.
http://www.pavonisinteractive.com/phpBB ... 15&t=24625

[mr_j936]

A good game with a technical relies on being able to burn well while concealed. Without that, the flamethrower is not used well(I sometimes use it instead of the main gun because it is guarantied damage on the one target) And the biggest issue with the rocket is that it is too loud, every pod on the map goes after you when you use it. Which is why it is best used when you are on the last activation. And usually at the last activation you can flank enemy units and kill them regularly without needing the rocket anymore...

So when you need to rocket you can't rocket, and when you can rocket you usually don't need to

[SouthpawHare]

A good game with a technical relies on being able to burn well while concealed. Without that, the flamethrower is not used well(I sometimes use it instead of the main gun because it is guarantied damage on the one target) And the biggest issue with the rocket is that it is too loud, every pod on the map goes after you when you use it. Which is why it is best used when you are on the last activation. And usually at the last activation you can flank enemy units and kill them regularly without needing the rocket anymore...

So when you need to rocket you can't rocket, and when you can rocket you usually don't need to

This sounds like a case of "Reality Ensues" for any stealthy guerrilla-ops squad trying to use high explosives.

[aimlessgun]

I think the issue is that fire is too strong in LW2. Therefore they made the fire-using class really unreliable to keep it balanced. As is, flamer Techs are very RNG to use. But if they were consistent they'd be OP because they'd be the one and only correct way to activate the main pod.

Lategame techs really should be consistent though. Unless you're saying lategame Incendiary Grenades should be nerfed.

[AlexTFish]

A good game with a technical relies on being able to burn well while concealed. Without that, the flamethrower is not used well(I sometimes use it instead of the main gun because it is guarantied damage on the one target)

Burn when concealed? How on earth do you get close enough to enemies to catch them in the tiny flamethrower cone while you're still concealed?

The only way I can think of is to hide behind some cover that's right on the pod's patrol route and just stand still for a couple of turns, which doesn't sound very practical for most missions.

[mr_j936]

A good game with a technical relies on being able to burn well while concealed. Without that, the flamethrower is not used well(I sometimes use it instead of the main gun because it is guarantied damage on the one target)

Burn when concealed? How on earth do you get close enough to enemies to catch them in the tiny flamethrower cone while you're still concealed?

The only way I can think of is to hide behind some cover that's right on the pod's patrol route and just stand still for a couple of turns, which doesn't sound very practical for most missions.

like so:
https://youtu.be/nRnnzFFZNNw?t=384
and
https://youtu.be/_GD8qTDB_HI?t=178

And countless other examples. And I have done it before(though I am a nub) The key is patience and some luck.

[Jacke]

Burn when concealed? How on earth do you get close enough to enemies to catch them in the tiny flamethrower cone while you're still concealed?

The only way I can think of is to hide behind some cover that's right on the pod's patrol route and just stand still for a couple of turns, which doesn't sound very practical for most missions.

That's exactly how you do it, as I described in the original post above. And you often have to do it when a pod is right beside the objective.

[nightwyrm]

A good game with a technical relies on being able to burn well while concealed. Without that, the flamethrower is not used well(I sometimes use it instead of the main gun because it is guarantied damage on the one target)

Burn when concealed? How on earth do you get close enough to enemies to catch them in the tiny flamethrower cone while you're still concealed?

The only way I can think of is to hide behind some cover that's right on the pod's patrol route and just stand still for a couple of turns, which doesn't sound very practical for most missions.

There's a bit of tile counting and knowing that pods only move 7 or 8 tiles. It's also mostly done on non-timed missions where you can take a few turns to get it right.

[LordYanaek]

A good game with a technical relies on being able to burn well while concealed. Without that, the flamethrower is not used well(I sometimes use it instead of the main gun because it is guarantied damage on the one target)

Burn when concealed? How on earth do you get close enough to enemies to catch them in the tiny flamethrower cone while you're still concealed?

The only way I can think of is to hide behind some cover that's right on the pod's patrol route and just stand still for a couple of turns, which doesn't sound very practical for most missions.

like so:
https://youtu.be/nRnnzFFZNNw?t=384
and
https://youtu.be/_GD8qTDB_HI?t=178

And countless other examples. And I have done it before(though I am a nub) The key is patience and some luck.

Be careful thought that you must unable xwynns mode if you want to always set the enemy on fire

[mr_j936]

Always? no. But for havens I keep technical, usually I can set ablaze the first squad of a rendezvous.

For hacking relays the final pod usually is either going back and forth predictably or at most doing 2 types of moves also predictably, they can be burned (even though it is timed) supply raids of course you can take your time and have a shot at making it work.

But make no mistake it is hard. I count 7 tiles, and I try my best, and yet I only succeed around half the time... But when it does work it usually just finishes a pod with one move... and that makes it worth a try.