1.2 and reverting Combat Stims to require Berserker Corpse

[Nekojusan]

just reading the unreleased 1.2 notes, this caught my attention : Added Berserker corpse requirement back to Combat Stims

Could we get some clarification as to why you are returning this requirement? i can understand they may be overly cost effective at the moment but given the scarcity of obtaining berserker corpses (in my last attempt i had only 4 berserker kills by the end of oct and two corpses) and the fact its a one use item seems a rather a steep requirement.

i can only go off my own attempted playthrough in terms of the cost, am i wrong in this?

[Stroggus]

Yeah, noone will use them again. IMHO if you add berserker corpse in the build project, then it should give you like 10 stims, not just one. Also would be nice if we could extract corpses for various stims - sectoids for psi offence for 2 turns, vipers for aim bonuses etc.

[mattprice516]

Note that current stims are really, really, really good. Something like 5 armor and some movement as a free action.

[Nekojusan]

I don't think anyone would dispute that, its the difficulty of attaining the materials required that bothers me, berserker corpses are pretty hard to come by in my experience given we only get them on missions we don't evac from

they should be more expensive, thats fine, but don't put it behind a corpse wall, just give it a higher supply cost, either that or make more expensive still with the corpse requirement and not be consumed on use.

[Dwarfling]

Then tone the Stims down, or make them permanent, but getting so few uses in a whole campaign, what'd be the point of going thru the trouble of researching the stuff?

[Krosly]

Well time to stock up on some stims then.

[Daergar]

Agreed, the cost is too low, just do not put it behind a corpse requirement.

Add a new resource, "alien goo", that is rendered from pure-bred alien corpses and use for various crafting, problem solved via much effort and coding.

Or just make them cost more supplies.

[JoeShmo]

I never understood why the game allows for infinite weapons, armor, grenades, ammo, etc.

But stims? No..that needed a finite quantity.

I also never understood the corpse requirement ( or heavy material cost ) on something that didn't become "infinite" afterwards.
As people have said..getting a berserker to show up is pretty rare in and of itself ...but turning that giant corpse into a single stim use makes absolutely no sense, even if the stim buff is astronomically good. Realistically speaking...1 giant Adrenalin gland should be able to produce dozens of doses, especially when we are talking a giant alien gland vs small human consumption.

And why can't we reproduce these chemicals / enzymes anyway? The only thing we can't replicate is alien metals / energy sources because they utilize elements that are physically alien to our planet / dimension. A carbon based lifeform however, is not. But that's a different discussion.

From a gameplay perspective though, Id rather see this become an engineering project to make it infinite supply ( like most other equipment ) ..and just make sure the item has a "once per mission" limit on it. Heck, put a -2 health or something on it ( because its so foul, it makes it hard to breath around the stim ) to make it so you don't just equip all soldiers with it every mission "just in case" you want to cheese something. I mean, Xcom troopers have all sorts of crazy good cooldowns they can use on a whim that affect the outcome of a fight just as much as a stim does, but they don't require any resources; and can be used multiple times per mission.

[nightwyrm]

But stims? No..that needed a finite quantity.

Drugs are bad...mmmmkay. Sorry, couldn't help myself.

[johnnylump]

I'm not going to mess with it further for 1.2, but kicking around removing the corpse requirement and making it give one armor for 1.3. Five armor from a thing is pretty close to breaking the combat system.

[JoeShmo]

I'm not going to mess with it further for 1.2, but kicking around removing the corpse requirement and making it give one armor for 1.3. Five armor from a thing is pretty close to breaking the combat system.

Why not just give it shielding instead? Or temporary health increase ( that is then lost after its duration ) I think that fits the "lore" if it better than it creating damage reducing armor.

[Emerging_Chaos]

I think the corpse requirement should stay. It only makes sense given how building all your gear works in LW2.

In saying that, I never used them in vanilla and with the corpse requirement I would almost never use them in LW2 simply because they'd be ridiculously rare. (Not that I've even had a chance to research them yet).

So why not do the following: don't make them a one time use item.

Balance wise, you could reduce their effectiveness to something like 3 points of armour given that you'll always have this item available. It will also remain a scarce item because beserker corpses are so difficult to come by. I'm up to October and I don't even have a single beserker corpse to autopsy, let alone build a combat stim. Plus, when you do finally get one, you'll really only be able to give it to one soldier in one squad until you get lucky and get another corpse. Reducing its effectiveness in the field will make it less of an obvious pick over other gear too, giving you a choice to make, rather than letting the game make the choice for you because the item is so rare.

[LordYanaek]

And why can't we reproduce these chemicals / enzymes anyway? The only thing we can't replicate is alien metals / energy sources because they utilize elements that are physically alien to our planet / dimension. A carbon based lifeform however, is not. But that's a different discussion.

Time required to fully analyze the sample and possible multi-chemicals interactions in the product, much like we still extract essential oils from plants rather than replicate them artificially. Tygan has much job to do. Probably a few years after the end of the campaign he'll be able to produce those without extracting the chemicals from a berserker corpse, but not now.

So why not do the following: don't make them a one time use item.

I tend to agree on this, make them less powerful but make them once/mission rather than once/game, balance them with other items and keep them rare with the corpse requirement. Not sure why Firaxis made those once per game while the even more cheesy mimic beacons were not, no need to stick with their design.

[TechnoMage]

How about they deal damage to you after they wear off, after so much drugs flow through your system it should have some sort of bad effect and you could plan for it by healing up right before it wears off and such.