Is the smoke on Concussion Rocket meant to be a nerf?

[Manifest]

As it stands you won't even be able to flank these targets that you've stunned in the next patch due to the smoke buff, and I know the common response is that "you should run up aggressively into the smoke", but this doesn't do much for the Technical that shot the rocket in the first place.

If it's not meant to be a nerf, could it be removed or reworked, because as it stands it's a really big nerf. And if it is a nerf, could the disorientation be guaranteed at least if the stun misses? I'm not sure this rocket is all that great for the tier.

[xwynns]

I posted an explanation of this perk design here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/ ... h=cbab1873

[Manifest]

I do remember reading that, I can only assume that means that the smoke isn't meant to be a pure nerf, but merely a nerf to killing the enemies, and a buff to running through them. If that's the case couldn't the Technical shooter at least get the smoke or some defensive option too? I don't see a reason for the smoke if it just gives them incentive to shoot at the technical unhindered.

[SmokingBuffalo]

I don't know if this is helpful but i think it's great for breaking concealment against a big or dangerous pod.

I tried it today and it went really well, there was a pod with 2 mutons 1 berserker and a sidewinder. And i didn't have enough damage to kill them all in 1 turn.
So i went for the concussion rocket, berserker and sidewinder got stunned and both of mutons were disoriented so they couldn't move much ( they also thought staying in the smoke was a good idea )
After taking proper cover and ending my turn, i ran up with my technical and burned them all to a crisp in the next turn. It was glorious.

Yes it's highly sunlikely to get a situation like that again but i just wanted to say that it can be used offensively as well.

[Manifest]

I don't know if this is helpful but i think it's great for breaking concealment against a big or dangerous pod.

I tried it today and it went really well, there was a pod with 2 mutons 1 berserker and a sidewinder. And i didn't have enough damage to kill them all in 1 turn.
So i went for the concussion rocket, berserker and sidewinder got stunned and both of mutons were disoriented so they couldn't move much ( they also thought staying in the smoke was a good idea )
After taking proper cover and ending my turn, i ran up with my technical and burned them all to a crisp in the next turn. It was glorious.

Yes it's highly sunlikely to get a situation like that again but i just wanted to say that it can be used offensively as well.

It's not quite so unlikely. I was in that situation as well. My technicals can't really get close enough in concealment to do a good flame without blowing their cover first, so I thought maybe a concussion rocket into flamer combo (in one turn using two technicals) from concealment would keep them still enough to get a good flame on them without suffering from smoke. It works quite well, but I was just hoping that wasn't my only recourse.

[GavinRuneblade]

Give the technical an smg . Not for the move, but reduced enemy detection. It lets you get close enough for a good BBQ.

[NephilimNexus]

Red Fog makes concussion rocket irrelevant. You can inflict greater debuff just wounding them with a regular rocket.

[Manifest]

Give the technical an smg . Not for the move, but reduced enemy detection. It lets you get close enough for a good BBQ.

Yeah, I do. But on the missions where I care about it the most (Supply Raids and other big ones) are the ones where the pods are biggest and the infil time is lowest (so the enemy detection radius is much bigger). Even if the enemy detection radius is very small, I want to be able to hit the center and other side of a big pod, as it stands they're usually too spread out for me to get the best cookout.

>Red Fog makes concussion irrelevant

Yeah but you can't just replace the concussion rocket with a regular one, or we all would.

[Sines]

I posted an explanation of this perk design here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/ ... h=cbab1873

Copy of what I posted on Reddit in response to this;

I dunno, I'm not super convinced here. While it does seem useful in some circumstances, this is a perk, not a utility item. I have to choose this over Shredder or Burnout, both pretty excellent and generally useful perks. A situation where you want to stun enemies, and then hide in smoke right next to them, seems like a fairly rare situation.

It can work as a "Run for it" ability, but as someone else noted, the Technical isn't going to be able to run into that space, so he'll be out of the smoke.

The Smoke part of it is rarely useful, and more often prohibitive. The only way I can think of that makes this rocket 'work', is as a sort of soft-stasis. The stunned and disoriented enemies can't hurt you, but being in smoke, you can't hurt them. And, depending on the Stun rate, that might actually be a valid option.

But, again, it's still one more choice next to Shredder and Burnout. And a skill that comes with a downside (that can be an upside in very specific circumstances) just doesn't seem to measure up. And the fact that it's one of only two skills that grants you an extra rocket for a rocket focused build isn't helping either, because if I skip it because I don't like the downside, I feel like it devalues the rocket-boosting passive skills that I pick up.

I suppose I'll give it a try. Perhaps severely hinder one group of aliens and shoot out of the smoke to attack another group, while ignoring the ones inside, can work in addition to the 'leg it' strategy, but smoke or not, I'm not sure how good any strategy that involves standing next to enemies is, even if they're disoriented. But maybe the Stun rate is sufficiently high enough that it works well enough as a soft group-stasis, which would be pretty awesome, admittedly.

So what is the stun / disorient rate on these things?

[GavinRuneblade]

Give the technical an smg . Not for the move, but reduced enemy detection. It lets you get close enough for a good BBQ.

Yeah, I do. But on the missions where I care about it the most (Supply Raids and other big ones) are the ones where the pods are biggest and the infil time is lowest (so the enemy detection radius is much bigger). Even if the enemy detection radius is very small, I want to be able to hit the center and other side of a big pod, as it stands they're usually too spread out for me to get the best cookout.

That is true. It would be nice to get one or two extra tiles of reach without width.

[Truefell]

I think that CR is fine if you want to buy some time. I've had a retaliation where I activated 3 pods at once. CR disabled most dangerous enemies(Berseker, Captain, Engeneer and Rocketeer) and allowed my other Tech to move up and do some crispy business.

As for buffs, I think, that adding some offensive capabilities would be nice to encourage picking the perk. Like debuff +1 damage from explosives and fire to everyone affected by smoke. Lorewise it can be explained somewhat like Fuel air bomb, that CR smoke contains highly explosive componets. After damaging tiles with such smoke effect, smoke will disappear (this is more of a balance suggestion).

More offtop down.

Spoiler: show

The more I think about such thing, the more ideas I get:
- Make somekind of smoke grenade, that not only buffs explosive and fire damage but inflicts a point of damage every time someone fires a weapon.
- Another variant is to make smoke affected tiles being able to set chain flame reaction. Example: You throw smoke, then you throw grenade (tiles affected by grenade are set on fire), next nearby tiles could be likely set on fire too and so on(with diminishing probability).

[Narcissistic_Martyr]

Since it does fairly minimal damage, you can use it to protect units that end up grazing a critical shot and would otherwise end up screwed. Just revive them next round if you need to move them.

Also since I tend to run a mind shield on an assault or shinobi that is going to be pretty far forward or has lowish will to prevent mind control considering they can typically one shot anyone on my team they're immune to the concussion effects as well and they get the smoke bonus for defense.

[Devon_v]

The concussion rocket does phenominal evironment damage well beyond the actual AoE of the rocket. You can blow cover without spawning smoke on the targets or just level buildings and drop whole pods to their doom. It also comboes insanely well with Shinobi and Assaults as the second wave.

Personally I love them, but they require a close range combat mindset.

[Manifest]

The concussion rocket does phenominal evironment damage well beyond the actual AoE of the rocket. You can blow cover without spawning smoke on the targets or just level buildings and drop whole pods to their doom. It also comboes insanely well with Shinobi and Assaults as the second wave.

Personally I love them, but they require a close range combat mindset.

Sorry? Really, they do environmental damage? I haven't been noticing it. Maybe just because of the smoke, do concuss rockets scatter? I think that'd be a good buff if they didn't scatter, since their effect is already rng and situational, and they're probably lighter and easier to guide than a regular rocket.

[JulianSkies]

I am very certain they do not scatter

[Devon_v]

No scatter is listed. I've lost cover that my own guys were using a good 4-5 squares out of the blast area. I first discovered it when I tried to stun some troopers camping the evac zone on a building and it leveled the building. Firebrand moved over to my squad, too, so it was all good.