I miss the Longwar 1 different gun options

[Sir_Dr_D]

I am enjoying what I have seen so far with long war 2. I like the whole resistance management mechanics , and the infiltration system has more versitude then the previous rest mechanic. And things like the graze mechanic and other combat differences gives the battle a more dynamic feeling.

One thing I miss though is the gun options. Right now the only choices are assault rifle and smg really. That seems dull when you are used to the more choices available from longwar 1. There we had other options like:

carbines: less damage then an assault rifle, but gives an accuracy bonus and a small mobility. (usuefull for soldiers who need a lighter weapon but won't be doing close up combat.)

heavy rifles: more damage and crit then an assault rifle but provides a mobility penalty, and an accuracy penalty on your second action. (it is an interesting alternative for infantry and assaults)

marksman rifles: a light version of the sniper rifle that has less range and damage but is more mobile, and can be moved and shot without snapshot.

2 guns choices for gunners: (I forget their names.) The larger one could not be shot after a move, but did more damage, and had a little bit of beyond sight range.


I miss these options. it makes character choices seem more bland without them. So I hope these options are on the development roadmap, or it won't fully feel like longwar.

And the pistol training in the AWC seems a bit out of place right now. Some of these weapons like the marksman rifle and heavy rifle, could require special training in the AWC in order to use properly. It would be cool if the AWC allows you to use special weapons, and expand on the whole pistol training theme.

But at the very least we need carbines. It is a good choice for classes like grendiers who need lighter weapons, but shouldn't be fighting up close. And it was the first special weapon added to the original longwar, and makes things seem missing without it.

[Mooncabbage]

I never played LW1, but some of these sound like they could do with porting. Personally I find the SMGs very underwhelming, and usually give my shinobis a laser pistol as soon as I have them unlocked. The Carbine in particular seems like a good option, as there are many classes (specialist, technical) where a little bit of extra mobility would definitely compensate for a small reduction in damage output.

I suspect they haven't been included because they would require more modelling work to be satisfactorily implemented, given the high standard of the mod. It's possible they might look at it down the road, once some of the kinks have been worked out of the initial release, which IMO is more of an issue right now.

[LordYanaek]

carbines: less damage then an assault rifle, but gives an accuracy bonus and a small mobility. (usuefull for soldiers who need a lighter weapon but won't be doing close up combat.) <snip>
But at the very least we need carbines. It is a good choice for classes like grendiers who need lighter weapons, but shouldn't be fighting up close. And it was the first special weapon added to the original longwar, and makes things seem missing without it.

SMGs actually took that place. They were also the first special weapon added by Long War Team (now Pavonis Interactive) long before LW2. Sure they don't have exactly the same stats, but they already fill the "lighter weapons" slot in LW2. My shinobis, grenadiers and techs all mostly use SMGs.

heavy rifles: more damage and crit then an assault rifle but provides a mobility penalty, and an accuracy penalty on your second action. (it is an interesting alternative for infantry and assaults)

Those were fun, but in the end i rarely used them. Mobility is even more important in LW2 with so many timed missions and i fear they wouldn't be used very often. Having them as an option would be nice of course but i don't really miss them

marksman rifles: a light version of the sniper rifle that has less range and damage but is more mobile, and can be moved and shot without snapshot.

That's basically what the new snap shot does. It turns your regular sniper rifle into a marksman rifle so adding this weapon would require a new perk to replace Snap Shot as nobody would take it anymore.

2 guns choices for gunners: (I forget their names.) The larger one could not be shot after a move, but did more damage, and had a little bit of beyond sight range.

They were SAW (squad automatic weapon) and LMG (light machine gun), not sure which one was the big one. Yes, they were interesting but again i was usually avoiding the heavier as it prevented me from moving. However given that gunners rarely go on timed missions anyway i think the heavy gun (it had 5 squadshight range beyond normal vision and could suppress at squadsight range) could really be interesting in those super swarming 0% infiltration ambushes but it would require careful testing to be sure it's not overpowered.

And the pistol training in the AWC seems a bit out of place right now. Some of these weapons like the marksman rifle and heavy rifle, could require special training in the AWC in order to use properly. It would be cool if the AWC allows you to use special weapons, and expand on the whole pistol training theme

The entire pistol in utility slot and training at AWC is weird for me but i didn't really try to build a soldier for pistol use. However i think the logical extension to this idea would be to be able to drop either primary or secondary weapon for bonus mobility. I could imagine a pistol and sword shinobi for instance, or a low mobility ranger dropping the sawed-off and taking a pistol. It already costs you an utility slot to change your weapon this way so this probably wouldn't be OP but it could give you more options.

[PerkPrincess]

Honestly, half of LW1's arsenel went unused. More options =/= better gameplay.

Carbines had a nice steady role in the early game, for your aiming impaired soldiers and rookies. But generally everyone would get an assault rifle as they gained their ranks. Those that needed mobility got SMGs.

Battle rifles were debatebly useful. LMG's were... Super situational? SAWs offered better utility overall.

I honestly always went Sniper Rifles over DMRs.

And remember these all had to be edited from the stock weapons in LW. They were all the same model, just shortened or giving more length as needed. This was the best they could do considering how unfriendly EW was for modding. For Pavonis to match the quality of LW2, they would have to actually make all new weapons, at each tier. Textures and models. Animations for each. ( Remember how your soldiers had hover hands in LW1? ) And on top of that, you have the weapon mods that need to be made for them.

That's a lot of work for very little gameplay return. This is time and money that could be spent on far better content. More mission types, QOL additions, Balancing, etc. etc.

[marduk]

One interesting option, especially with the infiltration heavy theme, would be to rip off something from certain LW1 missions and allow you to send people on missions with a pistol replacing the main weapon, for significant infiltration time and mobility boost.
Would also fit nicely with the pistol training system. It's a massive opportunity cost as it is, because you only have 1 AWC training slot as it is, with an ability to get a second later on, while you could well use 4 or more to give all the nice skills to the large number of soldiers one needs.
To train up the non pistol skills to one soldier takes a total of 48 days in an AWC slot...

[Arcalane]

LW1 also lacked the weapon mod system that LW2 has. I think you could just as easily incorporate new weapon mods (similar to how Grimy's has the Heavy Frame that's +damage/-mobility, or Light Frame that's -damage/+mobility) that allow you to do much the same end-effect with significantly less work.

[Sir_Dr_D]

The battlerifle in longwar 1 was under-rated. I used it on some of my soldiers and it performs better then people expect. For infantry it was a good anti large monster weapon (Mectoids, beserkers, chrysalids, etc, And there was a lot of those. For assaults it was a good alternative to the shot-gun. It allowed the assault to fight from a distance, while still having a strong option for run -n gun. The battlerifle was fun.


Anyway, whether it is too much work or not is for the devs to decide. I can understand if it is, but I am letting them know what that I at least liked those options. I used them. But the same options that work in longwar1 will not work for longwar2, but I would like to see a few more weapons choices. To me it just gets boring if everyone has the same gun.

And strategically there is a need for a light weapon that is meant to be used from a distance. Such as if you have a low hp , low aim grenadier. If you give the grenadier a rifle she can't move because of all the grenades she is carrying. If you give her an smg, then she has to get too close into combat to be able to use it effectively. So something like a marksman rifle, which is light and does less damage then a rifle but has the same aim modifers at medium to large distances would be useful here.

And a battle-rifle would be fun for the options it can provide.

And yeah, carbines probably would not make sense. Other games such as Xenonaughts seem to describe some guns as carbines that are in the shotgun category.So carbines in reality are probably short range weapons, which makes them similar to either an smg or a shotgun. So no need for it. Long range light weapons might be best called marksman rifles.

[LordYanaek]

Weapon mods would probably be the way to go but given that option already exist and Pavonis already stated they don't want to replicate/include other mods just for the sake of having them in long war, it's unlikely they would go this way. However Grimy's loot is a much bigger mod that goes way beyond simply making more modular weapons and arguably breaks or at least changes the balance significantly so maybe they could include something like those light/heavy frames. That would give some versatility.

There's also all the Spatz kit bashes providing recombined models with configurable stats. This could also be an option for someone who wants more weapons.

[Ketchup4684]

The Marksman Rifle was so so good on Scouts. The Carbines were nearly necessary on Rookies. The LMG was good for suppressing at longer ranges, though i have to admit i used the SAW more. And the Battle Rifle was pretty much the best weapon for the Infantry once their aim got high enough, plus it had a larger magazine than the normal rifle. It would take Pavonis a bit of time to make them in LW2 though, because 1: Balance reasons and 2: In LW1 the Carbine, Marksman Rifle, and Battle rifle models were based of the EXALT assault rifle model, just modified. They'd have to make new models in LW2. But if they do get a wider variety of weapons, it'd make me very happy. I too miss the weapon choices from LW1.