First I want to say I love LONGWAR and for me it’s like the best game ever…period. For reference I have 1600 hrs in EW/LW and 600 in XCOM 2 most on Legend difficulty. I love what the team did with XCOM 2 for now and I loved the two new packs they released.
Immediately I did a L/I run (for the umptieth time) to test it and want to give my CONSTRUCTIVE balance feedback. I didn’t manage to test in detail every single perk but got a good understanding of the large mayority. I hope to give more detailed suggestions as time goes on and the community helps shaping out the final version.
One thing I can say is that I can’t shake the feeling this mod was a bit rushed. There is a number of bugs and balance not on the level of what I came to expect from LW team. But don’t take this too harshly! I did follow LW from beta 13 when stuff was fairly polished, so I am sure this 90% quality will end up in the usual 110 – 120% of 100% possible when the LW team is done with it:)
I hope this thread will open a discussion regarding the balance and help the community polish things out to perfection. This isnt' as detailed as I wanted it to be, but I tried to bring out the most glaring problems IMO. I hope this will spark a constructive debate on the community side.
So here is my breakdown, first the general remarks, then class by class.
GENERAL REMARKS:
- Spoiler: show
- 1:
New classes feel a bit OP compared to old ones. There is one extra rank that corresponds to lost GTS perks, but the extra perks are usually Colonel levels with each soldier getting two (at Colonel and Brigadier!).
What I like about XCOM 2, compared to XCOM EW and LW was that the rank progression is a bit subtler, no really super OP ranks at lower levels, and even Colonel ranks were toned down. This makes for a smother, more tactical gameplay LW was known about and it fairly well in the final version.
At this moment, especially in the late ranks the difference between low and high ranking soldier is huge. This results in more emphasis in not losing a soldier and making a return from a few serious losses more difficult (if the enemies are appropriately scaled, which now they are not obviously at this moment but that will surely change) which makes for more binary and less tense campaigns. XCOM is at its best when you are at the verge of hope getting on just barely, and less pronounced rank differences make that possible.
2:
Dual shot abilities are problematic if not under serious control. One problem during old LW development was the problem that some support classes almost became useless as general soldiers in using their rifles as their aim was low, had no doubleshots and were used only for their skills. Then an aim flattening and rework came to make sure each soldier is viable as a shooter, some more of course but within reason.
Currently that is what is happening with the LW Perk Pack. Some classes get to shoot up to 4 TIMES every turn. That is super OP and declasses everyone else. RANGER, GUNNER and GRENADIER are the most problematic. TRAVERSE fire is the greatest problem.
In vanilla XCOM 2 the Colonel abilities gave about +60% flat DPS per turn (take RAPID FIRE as example, with aim penalties against low cover as you won’t always get a flank). Many perks (TRAVERSE FIRE, LEU…) now give flat double dmg at much lower ranks giving far OP soldiers.
Even if you step up the less shooty classes (SqS sniper, Shinobi, Specialist) to match the others, you end up with the problem under point 1 (too much rank difference)!
3.
There is a number of bugs. Some perks don’t work at all (LOCKDOWN, smoke grenades), others have unintended side effects (DEATH FROM ABOVE), some are just bugged (SAVIOR). This is explained in more detail in the class section.
P.S. Savior seems to share the bug with COLLECTOR and SCAVANGER from Leader Pack, giving multiple bonuses!
RANGER:
- Spoiler: show
- Currently the most OP class. Just far too devastating from the start, mainly due to LEU.
Squaddie:
LEU is perhaps a bit OP just from the start. Having a double shot ability from the get go is a bit too much. There is far less reload and ammo considerations like in LW where you had just 3 ammo and lost a turn reloading. A cooldown of 1-2 turns maybe, or a recoil penalty like SPARK overdrive would be great. Even if the aim penalty would weaken brigadier abilities like rapid fire or rapid reaction it would be a welcome change, because those are OP as hell with this class. It would also force you to choose whether to fire first shot and follow with a special shot with an aim penalty, just use the special shot without penalty.
Corporal:
STEADY WEAPON is a clear loser here. Actually, it is a loser with any other class as well except sniper which gets it by default. I can’t think of a situation that isn’t very rare that I would even use this skill. Especially in a time constrained game like XCOM 2. You want killing enemies, not setting up shots in a high to high cover trading. I recommend a new skill here.
Sargent:
Generally fine, AGGRESSION is more powerful because of the way XCOM 2 handles crit calculations, but nothing sticks out.
Lieutenant:
I guess CENTRE MASS is a bit of a filler (back to old, give us something more interesting than RANGER from LW discussion) but otherwise fine.
Love the CLUTCHSHOT though it is weak (look in sniper) and it is very similar to WALK FIRE!
Captain:
EVER VIGILANT and FAN FIRE are OK, especially if an aim penalty would be added to LEU after first shot.
GRAZING FIRE on the other hand is OP AS HELL. It almost can’t miss. The graze is not a separate roll against cover, it is a separate roll with no cover, so if you miss you have 80%+ chance to do half dmg. It is almost guaranteed 50% damage no matter the cover. It also triggers rapid reaction for almost guaranteed 4 HITS PER TURN. Seriously, this needs to be nerfed with an A-bomb and still will end up being OP how OP it is now. My suggestion is to simply make another separate roll with the same chances for a graze attack, one that uses enemy cover. Also, it completely declasses WALK FIRE.
BUG!: After moving, EVER VIGILANT will default to a pistol overwatch which is not intended I think.
Major:
This seems fine.
Colonel:
LETHAL is fine in terms of power, but it is CENTER MASS’s big ugly brother and just as interesting, especially if there are two in the same tree. Else is fine.
Brigadier:
OP clusterfest once more!
RAPID FIRE is a powerful ability and fine for a brigadier rank, but not when combined with LEU. This is once again a LEU problem. If LEU gave 15 aim penalty after first shot that stacked with the 15 of RAPID FIRE we would have a nice choice and a more reasonable class.
SATURATION FIRE is fine by itself. But it’s more of a gunner kind of thing. Imagine if it would be a new skill that would remove LEU aim penalty and maybe give some other bonus to make it competitive (extra aim for a class that doesn’t like to move is nice, or just a flat dmg bonus)
RAPID REACTION is also ridiculous. With current enemy AI and COOL UNDER PREASSURE you will mostly manage to do all 3 shots, after making your first shot with LEU. THAT’S 4 SHOTS A TURN, EVERY TURN many will be crits. It also works with grazing fire. Giving this class the “KILL ALL” ability would be less OP. Some nerf to get it under control, and make sure missing an OW shot really is a consideration.
- Spoiler: show
- Also OP, but less than RANGER.
Squaddie:
RnG is fine and works fine.
Corporal:
CCS is OP as F***, especially this early. In LW it was a later rank, you had less ammo and reload meant a turn, also it was just an OW shot, not covering fire OW shot. Now it’s a captain level+ powerhouse. Needs to be put way high up the tree or nerfed big time. Activating just once per turn could do the trick.
Sargent:
DEADSHOT is fine, TRENCH GUN is maybe a bit stronger, but SLUGSHOT is too weak. In old LW shotguns had a bigger range penalty and it would be good, but now at mid range they are ok and loose little aim at longer ranges. You will get +15 aim at best (which is not to scoff at) but at 5 turn cooldown and 2 ammo it’s too much, not to mention other two perks that are more substantial. No cooldown, but ammo penalty would to it justice.
Lieutenant:
LIGHTNING REFLEXES are a clear winner here. Others are fine, but the ability to ignore and then nullify enemy OW fire is too strong this soon. Also SHINOBI has an inferior SHADOWSTEP two ranks up at major, where is the logic here? Maybe it should be the other way around.
Captain:
All fine here.
Major:
OP fest. This is the general problem here, multi shot abilities before brigadier is bad. HIT AND RUN is fine, but RAPID FIRE and CLOSE ENCOUNTERS are brigadier/colonel level perks. This early and with more to come later is a bit OP. Not RANGER class OP, but OP.
Colonel:
Seems fine between skills themselves, but I think only resilience deserves to be here. I would push back BEO and CUTTHROAT to major, and bring RF and CE to colonel.
Brigadier:
Untouchable is where it needs to be, so is rupture, Leathal could go down to colonel and rF could be in its stead.
- Spoiler: show
- Also a bit OP, mainly due to TRAVERSE FIRE.
Squaddie:
Very fine.
Corporal:
HEAVY ORDINANCE is a clear winner, and much too early. I would exchange places with BIGGEST BOOMS, as the dmg bonus (+1) is greater than the avg crit bonus (0.2*2=0.4). It would also randomize one shot kills in early game for a more lively experience.
STEADY WEAPON is just bad as it is in other classes.
FORMIDABLE is fine.
Sargent:
Fine.
BUG!: Smoke grenades don’t work. It was patched I think, but with this mod they don’t give bonuses. Really bad.
Lieutenant:
Fine, but CENTER MASS is boring.
WTS and CENTER MASS should change places because it fits better thematically.
Captain:
LOCKED ON is fine, but it seems like a filler, isn’t thematic. It’s there because of TRAVERSE FIRE and that is a problem because…
BUG!: Smoke grenades don’t work. It was patched I think, but with this mod they don’t give bonuses. Really bad.
Major:
…TRAVERSE FIRE as DOUBLE SHOT on Major is OP! It is almost as good as LEU. Almost no difference, dunno why even bother. Almost copy paste and OP at major the same as LEU is OP at squaddie. Else is fine.
I really love the STING GRENADES.
Colonel:
Fine.
Brigadier:
VOLATILE MIX is a bit weak for this rank. Grenades already have a generous radius and just the adv. launcher gives +2 radius. If exchanged with TRAVERSE FIRE it would be better. TRAVERSE FIRE would be a bit OP even on this rank unless it had a cooldown.
- Spoiler: show
- Buggy and has many double shots.
Squaddie:
A problem right from the bat. AREA SUPRESSION is bad. It’s worse than regular suppression. You get only one reaction shot and that one is not on the enemy you want, but the one that moves first. It also doesn’t work with holo targeting. At the very least you should have just regular suppression as an additional choice, one that most would choose anyway.
My suggestion, put AREA SUPRESSION as an upgrade of the regular one at major opposite lockdown, reduce its area and allow it to react to everyone moving. So you get real multiple suppression, or an upgrade of a single one with lockdown.
Corporal:
Fine, but STEADY HANDS seem a bit off, better to go to RANGER and something else here.
Sargent:
Great! This is where LOCKED ON makes sense.
Lieutenant:
Seems fine, maybe WALK FIRE is a bit outclassed at this rank.
Captain:
Ok, but DANGER ZONE is problematic as it is associated with a very bad AREA SUPPRESSION and arguably can make it even worse as you can’t focus a single unit. So you have a transmutator perk at best (no net gain, just chnage) and two solid perks next to it.
Major:
BUG!: LOCKDOWN just doesn’t work, period. Doesn’t work as in no effect at all. Otherwise it’s an AMAZING perk and would love to see it utilized.
TRAVERSE FIRE is just OP, especially at this rank. It would be OP even at brigadier. I mean there was double tap and rapid fire at similar ranks in LW gunner, but traverse fire is better with no cooldown and penalties.
Colonel:
Fine.
Brigadier:
Ok.
- Spoiler: show
- A solid well balanced class.
Squaddie:
All good.
Corporal:
Fine, but…
BUG!: PRECISION SHOT adds crit chance, but no extra crit dmg!
Sargent:
Very good:)
Lieutenant:
Very good, but…
DEATH FROM ABOVE is seriously OP!!! It gives an action back at ANY primary weapon kill from high ground. In vanilla, it meant you killed with a sniper and had an extra action. You could then use a pistol to kill, but as a secondary weapon it didn’t trigger death from above and with one action you couldn’t use the sniper rifle. Enter SNAP SHOT and voila, you can now. With SNAP SHOT each kill gives an action and allows you to fire again. Essentially you got SERIAL at Lieutenant rank. This looks like an oversight to me. The skill should have a limit of activating once per turn. Also, with primary weapons that need one action too shoot, it should be higher up the ranks, captain level at least as even with the one per turn limit or even better limit it to secondary and burst weapons.
Captain:
AIM was and still is underwhelming, a bit less so with the marksmen, still. I was thinking about a “cover shot” (just a working name) skill that would reduce your aim, but hunker you after shooting to make your vulnerable snap shot sniper able to bear the rigors of frontline combat.
LONG WATCH should definitely switch places with DEATH FROM ABOVE after the latter is fixed. Even at captain the combo with SNAP SHOT would be too much maybe.
Major:
CLUTCHSHOT is nice but weak, I mean it does damage comparable to COMBAT PROTOCOL and has one charge. COMBAT PROTOCOL is available from corporal and has 2 charges. It could instead replace RETURN FIRE in this form and the latter being scrapped. Or make it a low cooldown (2-3) turns skill that you can use unlimited times.
Colonel:
All is well.
Brigadier:
GUNSLINGER is outclassed by the other two, hell it’s outclassed by KILL ZONE with the latter being superior on every count including being on a lower rank. This is not a brigadier level perk and needs either serious buffs or a new perk altogether.
- Spoiler: show
- Amazing concept, fairly balanced, a bit weak compared to others (stealth variant).
I agree with some that the name doesn't fit. Old japanese ninja word is cool, but somthing like "Commando" would perhaps better fit the modern thematics of XCOM.
The stealth variant can't do much, especially when concealed. It is a scout though, so repacing one skill like SHADOWSTEP with MARK TARGET that doesnt break conceal would be great. You could help your team while concealed and who better for a mark target than a designated scout.
Also I added a suggestion for a SERIAL replacement that would add a third conceal ability.
Squaddie:
Love it, especially FLECHE!
Corporal:
I love the COVERT idea but think that next to the other two it needs a buff to maybe 33%. Now it typically takes away just one tile of detection radius, 2 at least would make it worth it. Remember it gives no real combat benefit, and once conceal is lost, so is the bonus.
Sargent:
Ok, though HUNTERS INSTINCTS is a bit OP at this rank, maybe +2 to dmg and more melees crit (+20) would be the way.
Also, SHADOWSTRIKE and HUNTERS INSTINCT should thematically switch places.
Lieutenant:
Very good, but…
Same as SNIPER, DEATH FROM ABOVE is seriously OP!!! It gives an action back at ANY primary weapon kill from high ground. In vanilla, it meant you killed with a sniper and had an extra action you could then use a pistol to kill, but as a secondary weapon it didn’t trigger death from above and with one action you couldn’t use the sniper rifle. Other primary weapons don’t need two actions and can fire as long as you keep killing. Basically, the SERIAL perk. This looks like an oversight to me. The skill should have a limit of activating once per turn. Also, with primary weapons that need one action too shoot, it should be higher up the ranks, captain level at least as even with the one per turn limit or even better limit it to secondary and burst weapons.
Also, EVASIVE and DEATH FROM ABOVE should thematically switch places.
Captain:
Good
Major:
SHADOWSTEP is really weak here, it is not a great skill and at major rank really sucks. On the other hand ASSAULT gets much stronger LIGHTNING REFLEXES much sooner. The two should be replaced between classes.
Colonel:
DEEP COVER was bad and still is, especially for this class, and especially with no OW perks to match with. Would be better on a RANGER or gunslinger SNIPER.
GHOSTWALKER gives me mixed feelings. I love the idea, but it feels a bit weak. Part of it should be already in covert. Maybe replaced by MARK TARGET?
IMPLACABLE is great but…
Brigadier:
…it’s almost the same as HIT n RUN. Almost copy paste, I can’t even imagine how those two combine (didn’t test that).
Otherwise the skills are solid however…
While SERIAL is great I was thinking of a new skill for brigadier that would be perfect for stealth SHINOBI. Something like ASSASSINATE (working name), once per mission (or with a long cooldown 5 turns), killing the last visible enemy won’t break your concealment. A stealth shinobi is great, but feels like he can’t help your team while concealed. On his ultimate rank he would get that ability. Kill the last enemy your squad can currently see and remain concealed (or technically reconceal). Then you could really have that fantasy of silent sword takedowns:)
- Spoiler: show
- Most balanced class IMO. Love the hack mechanics.
Squaddie:
Love it, ALL OF IT!!!!
Corporal:
Neat.
Sargent:
SPECIALIST sergeants are wild party boys and girls into smoking weed and doing gangbangs;) Otherwise they are fairly balanced.
Lieutenant:
Nice and good.
Captain:
Also good.
Major:
FIELD SURGEON feels a bit outclassed. It’s great but doesn’t scale well with on HP flat as enemies get more dmg later. Making it say 20% recovery reduction time would be much better.
Colonel:
EVER VIGILANT is great, but it is contrary to what SPECIALISTS do, SUPPORT! If the perk said, any actions except attack it would be fine, but as it is (unlike ranger) you cannot use your gremlin if you want it to work. That’s a big turn-off for this skill.
Also, maybe savior should be +2HP and +1 free medkit charge instead +4 HP (similar like in LW). This would greatly increase the flexibility of healing (better 5 weaker heals than 4 stronger ones to avoid overheal), and make more perk combos viable (you could skip field medic and still have notable healing to focus more on hacking/shooting).
Brigadier:
The first two perks are great, but RESILIANCE is there for no reason at all. Why would you ever choose it? SPECIALIST is not a frontline combat soldier and has no other tanky perks to synergize with. Really no reason for it at all.
My suggestion is to replace it with a new fancy skill “Overclock” (working name, but it’s pretty good I think) that would improve your gremlin to reduce cooldown of aid protocol by 1. This would give you no cooldown on AID PROTOCOL and 1 turn cooldown (instead of two) for THREAT ASSESSMENT! How cool would that be:)
